Featured was the SDA "prophetess" Right regarding Investigative Judgment ?

hint only a mention of the Bible in that post above

Steaver in point 1 - you seem content to ignore the content of my post and the Bible evidence presented - and you make your own text "Ellen White" . I find that odd.

2. There is no evidence at all that Christ is not the sin offering. Christ is in fact the sin offering of Lev 16 - the "Lord's Goat" -

It is only the "sin offering" that provides substitutionary atoning sacrifice. Only it is slain for the sins of others.

Not in real life.

In actuality - I only present the Bible case.

And you are simply ignoring the Bible details raised in my previous post - which is fine if that what you feel you must do. I fully support the free will of each person to make that choice.

in Christ,

Bob

 

What is odd is that you make my text EGW. The OP is EGW, in which you responded to, but never presented evidence from scripture that EGW is correct in declaring the scapegoat to be Satan. Still waiting for you to make the case....

Amen! And this is not the point of contention, so let's move on from here and have you show us from the scripture how the scapegoat is Satan.

I have ignored nothing but have addressed all points. The goat slain for the sin offering represents Christ dying for the sins of the world, we agree. We are still awaiting your scripture evidence that the scapegoat represents Satan. I have presented six scriptures which show the scapegoat represents Christ bearing the sins of the world, which you have so far ignored, and have yet to present your own scripture references which declare the scapegoat to be Satan.

 

Good - because you just posted the proof that Christ is not the scapegoat and proof that the scapegoat is not the sin offering and is not "for the people".

Glad you got there so fast.

Glad to help.

in Christ,

Bob

 

That's it? This is your critique of my exposition which provided six scriptural references proving the scapegoat is a representation of Christ? This is good for those who may be watching so they can see you have no answer from the law or testimony to support EGW's declaration that the scapegoat is Satan, proving her to be a false prophet.

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." (Is 8:20)

EGW is proven to have no light in this matter, for she gives no law or testimony from the scripture to prove that what she asserts concerning the scapegoat being a representation of Satan is a matter of fact.

You did ask for facts I believe...

Still waiting for your facts on this matter of the scapegoat representing Satan as you claim to be in agreement with EGW...

 

Well, a goat has horns and so does the devil. Where there is smoke there is fire. Since this picture was taken by CNN right after the heavenly voice to Abraham, here is your proof, and hope you will repent to the SDA clearing house.

 

Yes it was pretty simple once you were willing to quote the details above showing that the scapegoat is not Christ.

Six texts that did not prove the scapegoat represents Christ or that the Christ is our "scapegoat".

Six texts that make no link at all between the scapegoat and Christ - in the actual Bible.

Only the "sin offering" is said in the Bible to be "FOR the people".

Only the "Sin offering" sheds blood so that as Heb 4 says "without the shedding of blood - NO forgiveness of sins".

Only Christ the "Lamb of God" John 1, only Christ "Our Passover has been slain" 1Cor 5 in that model. He alone is the sin offering.

You did try to stretch Lev 16 into saying without-shedding-blood-there IS forgiveness in the scapegoat and/or that Christ is our scapegoat.

But for such texts we only have your ideas as the source - no Bible text.

You can't blame your lack of Bible texts to support key details in your argument - on Ellen White.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I presented clear bible text which match perfectly with the scapegoat of Lev 16, bearing the sins of the people. Your choice to pretend it isn't in the bible is non-instructive.

Still waiting for your bible text which supports EGW and her declaration that Satan is the scapegoat.

Otherwise;

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." (Is 8:20)

You ignoring this most difficult challenge, well impossible challenge, is only showing the weakness of your prophet. Present the law and testimony which declares Satan is the scapegoat of Lev 16.

 

True the scapegoat has sign assigned - but clearly in the text itself we are told that the scapegoat is not "for the people" AND is not "a sin offering".

All will certainly agree that all the wicked and even Satan himself have sin assigned to them - but they provide no substitutionary atoning sacrifice for anyone or anything. Their life is not given in sacrifice for anyone.

Just as we see in the case of the scapegoat.

--
As for your use of six texts -

Six texts that did not prove the scapegoat represents Christ or that the Christ is our "scapegoat".

Six texts that make no link at all between the scapegoat and Christ - in the actual Bible.

Only the "sin offering" is said in the Bible to be "FOR the people".

Only the "Sin offering" sheds blood so that as Heb 4 says "without the shedding of blood - NO forgiveness of sins".

Only Christ the "Lamb of God" John 1, only Christ "Our Passover has been slain" 1Cor 5 in that model. He alone is the sin offering.

You did try to stretch Lev 16 into saying without-shedding-blood-there IS forgiveness in the scapegoat and/or that Christ is our scapegoat - but that was a case of you quoting you.

The part where you quote the actual Bible there is nothing about "Christ our scapegoat" or any such thing.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Interesting,

And when are you going to post the bible where it says "Satan our scapegoat"?

Or, is EGW a false prophet since there is no such scripture which supports her claim, and yours, that Satan is our scapegoat.

And since there is no such scripture, according to Is 8, EGW is proven to be a false prophet.

Or, maybe I have been missing where you posted such evidence from scripture. Can you? It's been quite a few post now I have been asking, maybe it's time to face the truth about EGW.

 

True the scapegoat as a sign - has sin assigned - but clearly in the text itself we are told that the scapegoat is not "for the people" AND is not "a sin offering".

All will certainly agree that all the wicked and even Satan himself have sin assigned to them - but they provide no substitutionary atoning sacrifice for anyone or anything. Their life is not given in sacrifice for anyone.

Just as we see in the case of the scapegoat.

The wicked have sin that is not "for the people" - benefits no one.

The wicked have sin but do not offer themselves as a sin offering - benefits no one.

In Romans 2 - judgment is seen to involve BOTH the righteous AND the wicked.

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

In the judgment both the wicked and the righteous are dealt with.

But in the case of the wicked - they provide no sin offering, nothing "for the people" - no shedding of blood that results in forgiveness of sins --

As we see in the case of the Lev 16 scapegoat.

Oh no wait! We can ignore what the Bible says in Lev 16 and in Romans 2 and in 2Cor 5:10 if we just repeat to ourselves "Ellen White might be a false prophet". I keep forgetting your solution to Bible problems for your view.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Now here we go with your double standard. You declared that my exposition showing how the scripture speaks of Christ being our sin bearer, the exact phrasing found in Lev 16 btw, was to be dismissed because, as you said, " The part where you quote the actual Bible there is nothing about "Christ our scapegoat" or any such thing."

The reader will take note that in BobRyan's exposition, the part where he quotes the bible there is nothing about "Satan our scapegoat" or any such thing.

Pounding the pulpit with your personal pov is not instructive to the reader and does nothing to help your lack of scriptural support. Your exposition in an attempt to exonerate EGW's scapegoat theology is not simply lacking or weak, but is totally void of anything relating to Lev 16's sin bearer. The scriptures you provide state nothing about sin bearing at all, absolutely nothing, and as your personal standard states, says nothing about "Satan our Scapegoat". This is simply astonishing given the fact that you constantly preach to others they must give facts and scripture. Yet, you refuse to do this very thing yourself.

Thus, EGW is proven to be a false prophet according SDA's very own standards...

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." (Is 8:20)

 

I simply point out that your claim that without the shedding of blood there is still forgiveness of sins - does not work according to the Bible.

I then point out that in Lev 16 the "LIVE goat" is never called "The SIN offering".

I then point out that sin IS attributed to the wicked (even in Romans 2 not just Lev 16) in the judgment - but the wicked do not suffer "FOR the people". And so Lev 16 says the scapegoat is not the one that is designated to suffer "FOR the people".

In fact that text says "AFTER atonement has been made" - THEN the scapegoat has sin placed on it.

Indeed - not a single example in all your six texts - NOR in all of the Bible saying "Christ our scapegoat" YET we DO have many Bible texts about "Christ the LAMB of God" and "Christ our High Priest". All the actual claims in the Bible about Christ's role in that Lev 16 model - are there.

Your idea that "Christ our scapegoat" should have been inserted in the Bible some place - is missing.

I freely admit that while it is clear from the Bible that the scapegoat is NOT a sin offering and is NOT "for the people" and thus is NOT Christ (which ends your entire claim at that point) - it is not as clear that the scapegoat can only be the devil - since it can be any AND every wicked person who in true Romans 2, Rev 20, Lev 16 fashion is having to pay the debt of their own sins, without dying a substitutionary atoning death for one single soul.

As in the case of the Scapegoat of Lev 16.

You are free to not want to admit to this point.

But your claim that there is a "Christ our scapegoat" element here - is not compatible with scripture clearly stating the contrary.

You cannot go against the Bible statements on what is needed for "Forgiveness of sins" and expect us not to notice.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Origen ("Contra Celsum," vi. 43) identifies Azazel with Satan.[20]


Adventists teach that the scapegoat, or Azazel, is a symbol for Satan. It has been interpreted to be a prefigure of the final judgment by which sin is removed forever from the universe. Through the sacrifice of Jesus, the sins of the believers are forgiven them, but the fact that sins were committed still exist on record in the "Books" of heaven (see Revelation 20:12). After the final judgment, the responsibility for all those forgiven sins are accredited to the originator of sin, Satan. After which, Satan is destroyed in the Lake of Fire. Sin no longer will exist anywhere.[21]
They believe that Satan will finally have to bear the responsibility for the sins of the believers of all ages, and that this was foreshadowed on the Day of Atonement when the high priest confessed the sins of Israel over the head of the scapegoat. (Leviticus 16:21)
Some critics have accused Adventists of giving Satan the status of sin-bearer alongside Jesus Christ. Adventists have responded by insisting that Satan is not a saviour, nor does he provide atonement for sin; Christ alone is the substitutionary sacrifice for sin, but holds no responsibility for it. In the final judgment, responsibility for sin is passed back to Satan who first caused mankind to sin. As the responsible party, Satan receives the wages for his sin and the sins of all the saved – namely, death. Thus, the unsaved are held responsible for their own sin, while the saved are no longer held responsible for theirs.

All the monotheistic world religions attribute Azazel to demons. (A the very least - the wicked).

in Christ,

Bob