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Featured was the SDA "prophetess" Right regarding Investigative Judgment ?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, May 2, 2013.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Origen is not a Seventh-day Adventist - as you possibly noticed.

    And the non-SDA document was simply referenced for those who cared to read it and find that this is the position of all the monotheistic religions when it comes to Azazel as a name for demons or satan.

    This is not "new" with Seventh-day Adventists.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Point is that the bible state that the Christian will face a judgement held by Jesus after death, as to the quality of good works and deeds done for Christ or not, but that is for eternal rewards or loss of, NOT forfeiting salvation!

    NOT the message Ellen White received from a messenger of satan!
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    There is no "quality of good works" statement in the Bible about that future judgment - hence you quote no text to make that point.

    2Cor 5:10(NASB)10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    2 Cor 5:10
    (KJV)
    10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    Rom 6:23 "the wages if SIN is death, the free gift of God is eternal life".


    Romans 2

    4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

    5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

    6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:

    7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
    ...

    13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

    ...
    16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


    1John 3
    3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


    Romans 6
    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

    16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

    17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

    18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.









    1 Cor 6


    7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?

    8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
    10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.


    1John 2

    3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

    4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

    5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.






    Romans 2

    4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

    5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

    6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:

    7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

    8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

    10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

    11 For there is no partiality with God.
    12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

    13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

    14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,

    15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

    16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.





     
    #43 BobRyan, May 11, 2013
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NONE who appear before jesus to be judged will be lost and condemned, for that judgement is towards rewards or forfeit of them for what we have done since salvation!

    God the father already was fully satisifed by the blood of jesus upon no Cross, judgement for my sins forever dealt with, but still accountible for how i luived for God since saved by Him...
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Your statement posted just below Romans 2 - is you - quoting you no matter how much your "quote of you" contradicts the text of Romans 2.

    Fascinating. What cult could not thrive on such methods? I can't think of any.

    As we both know - the highlighted section of Romans 2 is NOT limited to "number of toys in heaven" but instead is a contrast between "eternal life" and "death" as the text itself says.

    On the cross Jesus was "the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sin of the WHOLE WORLD". 1John 2:2 NIV.

    That my friend is what the BIBLE says was completed at the cross and for whom.

    Is it your claim that the whole world is now going to heaven no matter the life of rebellion of a given individual? Just a different number of toys for each?

    Hmm - It appears you have ignored some details in John 3 and Matt 18.

    (And Romans 11, and Gal 5:4 etc).

    The "General Baptists" appear to have the high ground on this one -


    7. That men may fall away from the grace of GOD, (Hebrews 12:15) and from the truth, which they have received &acknowledged, (Hebrews 10:26) after they have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the HOLY GHOST, and have tasted of the good word of GOD, &of the powers of the world to come. (Hebrews 6:4, 5). And after they have escaped from the filthiness of the World, may be tangled again therein &overcome. (2 Peter 2:20). That a righteous man may forsake his righteousness and perish (Ezekiel 18:24, 26). And therefore let no man presume to think that because he hath, or had once grace, therefore he shall always have grace: But let all men have assurance, that if they continue unto the end, they shall be saved: Let no man then presume; but let all work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

    http://www.reformedreader.org/ccc/helwysconfession.htm



    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #45 BobRyan, May 14, 2013
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus died for the Elect of God, and they WILL be saved to due to the father good pleasure and Will, and NONE that Jesus atoned for shall be lost, for GOD promised to keep ALL who come to Him, Jesus said he will no wise cast out ANY, so that is the truth of the Bible!
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    1John 2:2 God says of Jesus that He is "The Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OuR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" (NIV)

    But not all are saved because some fall from Grace as we see in Gal 5:4 and we have the issue of "Forgiveness revoked" as seen in Matt 18. And we have the issue of Matt 13 the way-side ground those never saved, the thorny ground - those who are saved and then lost and the rocky ground - those who are saved and then lost.

    The teaching of Christ cannot be ignored on this subject.

    The "General Baptists" appear to have the high ground on this one -


    7. That men may fall away from the grace of GOD, (Hebrews 12:15) and from the truth, which they have received &acknowledged, (Hebrews 10:26) after they have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the HOLY GHOST, and have tasted of the good word of GOD, &of the powers of the world to come. (Hebrews 6:4, 5). And after they have escaped from the filthiness of the World, may be tangled again therein &overcome. (2 Peter 2:20). That a righteous man may forsake his righteousness and perish (Ezekiel 18:24, 26). And therefore let no man presume to think that because he hath, or had once grace, therefore he shall always have grace: But let all men have assurance, that if they continue unto the end, they shall be saved: Let no man then presume; but let all work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

    http://www.reformedreader.org/ccc/helwysconfession.htm


    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Bible promises eternal life to any who comes to jesus, they will never forfeit it, never be cast out, never be lost, shall be raised up by jesus in resurrection, etc...

    JUST clear that we have been secured by God eternally once saved!
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    You keep insisting that we can ignore the teaching of Jesus in Matt 18 and in Romans 11 and in Romans 6 etc - because he is locked in to some sort of no-free-will contract with mankind.

    But Christ argues in Ezek 18, Romans 2, Matt 18, Romans 11, 1Cor 6, Gal 5:4 ... that he is not locked in and that His teaching on this point cannot be ignored in favor of something like OSAS.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You keeping seeing us under the Old Covenant, as the promises made under that covenant in may regards were conditional , based upon behaviour and response, but under the New Covenant, there are UNCONDITIONAL, as we are eternally saved and secured, NOT dependent upon IF we kkep perfectly the law!
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It is hard to argue that these are all Old Covenant texts.

    Jer 31:31-33 is the New Covenant according to Hebrews 8 -- and there the law of God is written on the heart.

    But as Matt 18 points out - the one who accepts the Gospel must persevere in showing that same kindness to others or else their standing in Christ is revoked - their forgiveness of sins in fact - revoked.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    The problem with your cult is that the law is not written on your heart. If it was, you would not have a gospel of works. This is your pattern of being a Christian:

    Memorize Biblical commands
    Try to obey them under your own power
    Fail
    Lose your salvation
    Do whatever is necessary to regain it
    Repeat cycle over and over
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The endless name-calling solution tried out by some - falls short of actual Bible study apparently.

    And in the random-scatter approach that they take - they can't help be call fellow baptists names - for example "The Baptist Confession of Faith" gets slammed each time one of the nothing-but-name-calling solutions is brought out of the closet against the Law of God.

    How does that happen you ask?

    Let's take a close look.

    ==========================

    [FONT=&quot]Baptist Confession of Faith 1689[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

    19. The Law of God

    1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.


    2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

    3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

    4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

    5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.


    6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expectedin this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

    7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part24[/FONT][/FONT]

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #53 BobRyan, May 21, 2013
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    lets stick to the bible, and to your so called prophetess!

    We will NOT be investigated after we die, to make sure that we kept the law and sabbath enough to merit salvation, for its the FREE GIFT of God towards us in jesus, and that He will make sure to keep saved all that he does save!

    If jesus losing One saved person, that a real Christian somehow forfets eternal life, then jesus lied, he is not a saviour, but same as a devil, and we should follow your false prophetess!

    Thankfully, he is thr truth, and so he will save all who come to him, losing not i, casting not i out!
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Here again you "quote you" to make your case for that - while I on the other hand do not even quote what God said to Ellen White to make my Bible case for the judgment found in scripture.

    You must hold yourself in higher regard than you suppose I hold Ellen White -- by your own practice.

    [FONT=&quot]But since you did list Ellen White and the Bible as the two sources you want to stick to - and since the Bible is one of the sources you will allow - let's go with that.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    2Cor 5:10(NASB)10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    2 Cor 5:10 (KJV)
    10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    Rom 6:23 "the wages if SIN is death, the free gift of God is eternal life".


    Romans 2

    4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
    5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
    6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:
    7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
    ...
    13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
    ...
    16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


    1John 3
    3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Romans 6
    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
    16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death
    , or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
    17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
    18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

    1 Cor 6


    7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?
    8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
    10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

    1John 2

    3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
    4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
    5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.


    Romans 2

    4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
    5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
    6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:
    7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
    8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
    10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
    11 For there is no partiality with God.
    12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
    13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
    14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
    15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
    16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.





    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]

    [/FONT]
     
    #55 BobRyan, May 24, 2013
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  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    How odd that when I quote - and affirm - the "Baptist Confession of Faith" 1689 - you insist that we not mention it.

    Who is the Baptist here?

    The reason I quote your own Baptist Confession of Faith - is because you are trying to have it "both ways" claiming to BE a Baptist and yet arguing that to the extent that my doctrine agrees with the Baptist Confession of Faith - well that must be "Cult".

    You are between a rock and a hard place of your own making - and wedged in without much wiggle room on that one.
     
    #56 BobRyan, May 24, 2013
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  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The issue is not that God has written His law upon the new heart given to His children at new birth. What you don't grasp is that the power to obey this law does not reside in the will or new nature of the Christian (Rom. 7:18, 22; Gal. 5:16). It resides only in the POWER and PLEASURE of the indwelling Holy Spirit who works differently in different children to carry out different purposes according to the MEASURE of grace and faith given. Hence, we have the great contrast between a child of God like "Lot" and a child of God like "Abraham." Progressive sanctification is never finished in this life and is never stablized at any given level but continuosly vascilates every single day.

    However, the investigative judgment is absolute false doctrine because it denies that Christ has always KNOWN his people (Mt. 7:23; Rom. 8:28-30; Jn. 10:28-30) and denies his redemptive work has been finished when on earth.

    His High Priestly minister has nothing to do with obtaining redemption but merely applying it as His people come into existence.

    Your theory also perverts the Biblical coming of Christ. The hallucination that he came in 1800's invisibly and in heaven is simply an excuse of being too proud to admit like Milner admitted HE WAS WRONG!

    Your intepretation of Daniel 8 is repudiated by the very text itself. The text is speaking of the daily offering, which is offered twice a day - evening and morning and has its fulfillment in the book of Maccabees.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary "ONE Lord, ONE Spirit, One Baptism" -

    It is the SAME Spirit in all who "Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16

    It is the SAME Spirit that writes the Law of God on the heart and mind under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 quoted in Hebrews 8.

    It is the SAME Spirit in Romans 8 where ALL the saints are "by the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the flesh".

    It is the SAME Spirit that enables Paul to say "I CAN do ALL things through Christ that strengthens me" and to say "It is NO LONGER I who live but Christ that lives in ME". Gal 2:20.

    While I accept that sanctification is ongoing it does not mean that sin must be as well.

    1 Cor 10 "NO temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man and God is faithful who will not ALLOW you to be tempted BEYOND that which YOU are able. HE will WITH the temptation provide the way of escape".

    It is the SAME Spirit that inspires John to write -

    1 John 2
    3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

    Your argument that the Christian is enabled to obey by the Spirit of God is not solving the problem of the 2Cor 5:10, Romans 2 future judgment that involves heaven and hell according to Paul in Romans 2.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #58 BobRyan, May 25, 2013
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  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Non Baptist Christian
    Not true at all.

    The investigative judgment teaching has never been that "God is figuring something out" - it has always been that God is revealing a fact that He has always known about who is lost and who is saved.

    In Matt 7 Jesus said "by their FRUITs YOU shall know them".

    In Job 1 the PROOF of God's already made assertion that Job IS RIGHTEOuS - is seen IN the experiment, the data, the unfolding of the record of life.

    In Dan 7 "the BOOKS are opened" and in the end "Judgment is passed IN FAVOR of the SAINTS" Dan 7:22 by that courtroom of "myriads and myriads".

    God does not need "books" nor a time for judging deeds - because HE already knows the end from the beginning.

    But God is running a "Free will universe" and the Myriads and Myriads are being shown in Dan 7 - the truth of the Matt 7 principle "By their fruits YOU shall know them".

    Your are simply skimming the topic instead of looking into it carefully.

    In Lev 16 we have God's example of the doctrine on Atonement - and in HIS model BOTH the High Priest AND the Lamb (the sin offering - the Lord's Goat) have a part in the total picture of ATONEMENT.

    And I think we both know that.

    Christ is seen on the cross as the "Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2. NIV.

    But in Heaven He then goes on to serve as High Priest according to Hebrews 7-10 (and chapter 4)

    Whaat??

    The physical and REAL scene described in Dan 7 - is only "not visible" to someone who is "not there". In Dan 7 Jesus comes to the Ancient of Days - in the Clouds of heaven - and the Ancient of Days is there engaged in judgment. When that judgment "is passed in favor of the saints" then the 2nd coming event as described in Dan 2 and 7 takes place.

    The second coming has not happened yet.

    You have yet to read my understanding of Daniel 8 -- but Antiochus Epimanese as he was known to his "friends" was a tiny blip compared to the 1260 years of the dark ages and so is not even mentioned in Daniel 8.

    Both Dan 7 and 8 speak of the little horn that grows to be exceedingly great by comparison to Greece and to Rome.

    Pretty hard to miss who they point to - as Luther noted in Dan 7.

    in Daniel 8:13 the question is "How long is the VISION" which was a vision of the Medo-Persian EMPIRE and the Greek EMPIRE and then the division of Greece and then the subsequent EMPIRE that became greater than either Persia or Greece. And the span of time for that is given in the same day-for-year format as the 490 days (years) of Dan 9 and the 1260 days (years) of Dan 7. 2300 years in Dan 8 beginning just where the vision begins - with the dominate period of the Persian Empire -- the Ram of Dan 8.

    This should have been the easy part for the Biblicist.



    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #59 BobRyan, May 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2013
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus death paid for ALl sins for the saint , atonement in FULL, correct?
    Those in Chrsit HAVE already passed from death to life, NEVER die again, right?

    Sealed by/with H, sign of God WILL one day get us fully, Body/soul/spirit, right?

    Since we have had ALl sins forgiven by blood of jesus, since God freeely/fully justified us, already done fact, WHAT would be investigated, and how do westand guily of what jesus death fully atoned/paid for?

    The prophetess has commited the blaspheme of trending upon the precious blood of chrsit as hebrews warns us, and her fasle prophecies invole judgement of God upon her and her teachings, so she did hve an "Investigatory" judgement she faced after death!
     
    #60 Yeshua1, May 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2013
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