Featured was there An "official" baptist eschatological position?

Please expand on your cryptic answer regarding Mohler's nonadherence to the Seminary's Abstract of Principles. Do his premillennial beliefs put him in opposition to the Abstract?

 

Read the Historic Baptist Confessions. The ones I referenced in my post which you seem unaware are online. I would also note that The Southern Baptist Church disputes the pre-trig-dispensational doctrine of a "parenthesis" Church stating in the Baptist Faith and Message of 2000:

"The New Testament also speaks of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all the redeemed of all ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.”

 

Sport that thread is 3 years old!

 

A few in this day and age still are!... Me and a know of others!... Brother Glen

 

Yes, please expand on your cryptic answer regarding Mohler's nonadherence to the Seminary's Abstract of Principles. Do his premillennial beliefs put him in opposition to the Abstract?

 

You will have to ask him. He is the boss-man there!

 

Chialism (millennialism) dates back to the early church fathers.

The Secret Rapture theory appears to have been developed by Jesuit priests.

Developed from the biblical models of "the days of Noah" (Luke 17:26) and the Days of Sodom" (Luke 17:29). In both of these models a small remnant of God's choosing was delivered from the destruction to follow. So shall it be in the Coming of the Son of Man they reasoned and called it the "rapture" because "rapturo" is the Latin word for "caught up" in the air of 1 Thessalonians 4 from the Vulgate. Look at the Luke passages also along with 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

As far as I can tell, the rapture is first attributed to Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) and Roberto Bellarmino and later another development of their work was published by a Jesuit named Manuel Lacunza (1773). Somehow it fell into the hands of Scottish preacher Edward Irving and then Nelson Darby who popularized it in the Plymouth Brethren Church (I believe).

There was also a young girl involved named Margaret MacDonald associated with Darby who (apparently) had visions of the Rapture.

If you want more history Google these names because the historical accounts don't all match.

I do believe that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is what the term "rapture" means - we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

It is the same phrase found in 2 Corinthians 12
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Most modern dispensationalists have abandoned many of the excesses of the "traditional" view (i.e. the parenthetical church theory, the two gospel theory) and are know as progressive dispensationalists.


HankD

 

The smaller Baptist churches in my neck of the woods are, by and large, amillennial. Not that there aren't pre-tribbers, premils, and others in the congregations, but it's never been a hugely stressed point amongst us.

I could tell you some horror stories about eschatology and how it can split a church, but that's a different topic for a different time.

 

I guess I need to explain some points.

First, I'm not looking for a fight with anyone and I would even prefer to say that we having a discussion about our differences and learning what makes us tick-tock in a different cadence as Baptists (Christians first) in spite of our "distinctives" which make us Baptists.

Second, although dispensationalism has different pedigrees, I don't agree completely with any of them even so-called progressive dispensationalist (They are fuzzy concerning the distinction between Israel and the church.

My distinction is between redeemed or saved Israel and the church (wheat no tares).

I do believe that God will call redeemed Israel out of national Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble (a.k.a. The Great Tribulation) and these are they who are called the 144,000 of the 12 tribes.

Next, I don't think Chafer liked Scofield's "parenthesis" theory because the word has the nuance of an "afterthought" and I agree with OR completely. The Church of Jesus Christ is no afterthought.

But I don't think Scofield meant it that way (as an afterthought).

Also, I don't think Chafer was correct with the word "intercalation" because it has the idea of a later insertion perhaps not as an after thought but as a necessary addition to something apparently completed. e.g. An extra day is intercalated in the month of February every 4 years.

IMV the Church is the crowning achievement of the Triune God, the target for all of the world's history which preceded it and the origin of all events successor to it. IMO Both of the qualifying terms of these men are not noble enough for it.

In terms of the path of history, it is the fulfillment of the abrahamic covenant that Abraham's Seed (uppercase "S") who would be a blessing to all the nations of the earth.

But to say that it was hidden and/or a mystery before the incarnation is certainly tolerable because for the most part (except for metaphors and hints here and there) it was indeed. Paul elaborates upon this.

Finally, Nelson Darby has become the straw man of this discussion. He has become the scapegoat of non-dispensationalism. He has become like a George "W" Bush to the democrats, and it's unfair to the dispensationalists of the 21st century to say or imply he is the model by which we are all cast.

HankD

 

Yes, I think that is the case but there are many varieties.
Also I don't know about the South, I've lived north of the Mason-Dixon line all my Yankee life (up to this point in time).

HankD

 

Well essentially all the early Baptist Confessions indicated a General Resurrection and Judjment. I have posted the more prominent ones in the thread " John Nelson Darby vs Baptist Confessions of Faith"

 

Historically either Amillenial ie 1689 or what we call Post Trib premillenialists aka historical premill

Amill -original SBCers J P Boyce, John Dagg, P H Mell, W E B Johnson

Historic Premills- C H Spurgeon and B H Carroll of SWBTS

We place much more emphasis on this issue than our forefathers ever did.

There was also some post mill but that view died out at the end of WW II. Interestingly, D James Kennedy held this view

There is also a view known as "Historicism" John Gill, Isaac Newton-yes that one, and Matthew Henry

Here is John Gill

http://www.historicism.com/Gill/bodgill.htm

I am 85% sure of this information

 

Actually I believe that Gill believed in an earthly millennial reign but the only folks there were resurrected Saints.

 

Double post!

 

Spurgeon was premillennial but Carroll was postmillennial

Gill's view was as I posted earlier! His body of Divinity is something else; 994 pages, double column, and looks like 6-8 point type at most!

 

My bad on Carroll. He is the one that I was most unsure of. Spurgeon was a post trib right?

 

No you were correct about Spurgeon. Surgeon really did not have much to say about eschatology!

 

So quoting Spurgeon in an eschatological context makes little sense, right?


God bless.