Was WWII worth it?

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Matt Black, May 23, 2005.

  1. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    This is a disturbing article. It explores the question of whether WW2 did more harm than good.

    quote:
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    Was World War II worth it?
    By Pat Buchanan

    In the Bush vs. Putin debate on World War II, Putin had far the more difficult assignment. Defending Russia's record in the "Great Patriotic War," the Russian president declared, "Our people not only defended their homeland, they liberated 11 European countries."

    Those countries are, presumably: Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Finland.

    To ascertain whether Moscow truly liberated those lands, we might survey the sons and daughters of the generation that survived liberation by a Red Army that pillaged, raped and murdered its way westward across Europe. As at Katyn Forest, that army eradicated the real heroes who fought to retain the national and Christian character of their countries.

    To Bush, these nations were not liberated. "As we mark a victory of six decades ago, we are mindful of a paradox," he said:

    "For much of Eastern and Central Europe, victory brought the iron rule of another empire. V-E day marked the end of fascism, but it did not end the oppression. The agreement in Yalta followed in the unjust tradition of Munich and the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Once again, when powerful governments negotiated, the freedom of small nations was somehow expendable. ... The captivity of millions in Central and Eastern Europe will be remembered as one of the greatest wrongs in history."

    Bush told the awful truth about what really triumphed in World War II east of the Elbe. And it was not freedom. It was Stalin, the most odious tyrant of the century. Where Hitler killed his millions, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot and Castro murdered their tens of millions.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The complete article is right here:
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44210

    Thoughts?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  2. KenH

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    Yes, World War II was worth it. I like Pat Buchanan but he is simply off base in this article. He asked a lot of questions, but he never came right out with an answer. We have to assume his answer would be "no" based on his comments.
     
  3. ktn4eg

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    Yes, it was worth it for the US to fight against the Fascists, the Nazis, and the Japanese imperialists.

    One must remember that 1) The US was attacked by one of the Axis powers [Japan], and 2) WWII had already been going on for more than 2 years prior to our entry in it.

    While I'll be the first to admit that FDR made a grave mistake at Yalta, that is something for which he as our President was responsible, and something for which, IMHO, he has already had to answer to God.

    While I agree with Pat Buchanan on a lot of his positions regarding the foreign policy of the US down through the years (e.g., what he pointed out in his book "A Republic, Not an Empire"), if he said that it was wrong for the US to enter WWII in the first place, then he is dead wrong.

    Although some Americans may question the value of some of our states passing legislation declaring English to be the official language of that state, at least the debate is over that language and not over Japanese or German!
     
  4. JGrubbs

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    FDR didn't consider it a mistake to hand over Europe to Stalin. FDR was a friend of the Communist who he called "Uncle Joe". FDR was a Socialist nightmare, and one of the worst things to ever happen to the USA.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    Did Mr. Roosevelt have any choice regarding Russia and Eastern Europe? It is not a question of whether we liked or disliked communism. They were an important ally in defeating Germany on the Eastern front.

    Was WW2 a mistake? Aren't all wars a mistake? Did we have a choice? No, Germany was threatening the shores of England and came close to getting there. I was in London all through the war years and felt the German bombs. Just happy I didn't have to hear their guns at home too.

    Mr. Churchill wanted to drive the Germans back up through Russia and wipe out another enemy. For this he coined the phrase: "A great iron curtain has fallen over Eastern Europe...." The English people denied Churchill that thrust.

    We enjoy great freedom to-day because of WW2 and the allied efforts, and communism has been defeated by a better ideology rather than by arms...a far better solution, in my opinion.

    The veterans motto, "Never Again!" remains my motto. I hope we never have to go to such a war again.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Matt Black

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    I think that Truman should have told Stalin to back off in Eastern Europe on the basis of "We have The Bomb and you don't"; a marvellous opportunity was thereby squandered and millions of Eastern Europeans exchanged one oppressive ideology for another for the next 40+ years. So, I disagree with Buchanan re fighting WWII but I agree with him ref not being robust enough with the Russians at the end

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  7. 4His_glory

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    WW2 was certainly worth it. Anytime freedom is defended it is worth it, however I feel that the Allies bungled thing in getting involved to much with the Soviets. It seems that they handed Eastern Europe to Stalin on a silver platter at Yalta. This is just one of the ironies of history. Thank God that the Soviet Union fell, but my what years of difficulty the West endured because of the Cold War.
     
  8. Matt Black

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    ..and the East, too.

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  9. Jim1999

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    well, my friends, we might have been in a greater pickle had we tried to take on the mighty Soviet.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. 4His_glory

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    Yes the East too. I can not begin fathom the suffering they endured under the "Iron Curtain".
     
  11. Stratiotes

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    An alternative history might have been to let Hitler and Stalin bleed each other dry until both were thrown out by their own people. As has been argued in the past, all government is ultimately based on the consent of the people. They tolerated Stalin and Hitler - if they had become intolerable to their own people, it might have been quite different.

    None of us can know what *might* have been. We can only know what was - and I fail to see any significant difference between Hitler and Stalin+Mao+Hoxha+PolPot+Tito+Castro et al. In that respect, I don't know that WWI or WWII ever really ended since the "peace" of both only set us up for the next conflicts - WWI for WWII and WWII for Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, and the middle east just to mention the more obvious.

    Its a good question and one I find it hard to answer either way other than to question what it is we think was gained that was not offset by the losses.
     
  12. blackbird

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    I don't have the quote here--but love reading WW2 history----the late Stephen Ambrose collections are among the easy readings---to which he relates a group of German prisoners who had just surrendered to an American unit----one German prisoner made the comment while being interrigated

    "When this war is over----you will join us in fighting the REAL war!"----implication toward Russia!!

    Then one can easily read accounts of German infantry units surrendering "by the tens of thousands"----stampeeding each other trying to reach American forces before the Russians closed in!!!---if that gives one a clue of the barbarism of the Russian mind!!!!
     
  13. KenH

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    Barbarism was not justified on the part of the Russians toward the Germans, blackbird, but surely you are aware of the atrocities committed by the German army when it invaded Russia. The Germans were terrified of retribution - and they were correct.

    The History Channel has a weekly program called "The Last Days of World War II" on each Friday at 7:00 p.m. CDT. It is really good.
     
  14. Ben W

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    What needs to be born in mind, is that the Russians went into Estonia and murdered a number of people and the allies did nothing at all about it, allowing it to happen and then siding with Russia as allies.

    No doubt it was a complex political situation, but I think that we should have made Russia withdraw from Estonia, rather than looking the other way when some pretty horrible things were being done to them.

    Praise God though, Estonia has their freedom (late 1980's) and are surging forward as a nation.
     
  15. rsr

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    Well, what would you suggest the western Allies should have gone about doing that? The Russians were in the Baltic states (which were Russian territory until after WWI). What possible leverage would the western Allies have? Land an army? Threaten to pull out of the war?

    The Red Army was on the ground in eastern Europe, and there was nothing short of a war against the USSR that could change that. There was little appetite in the West to take on the Russians, who were there in number, with superior equipment (the T-34s would have made mincemeat of the Shermans).

    Broaching the "nuclear option" would have been perilous. The U.S. had no more atomic weapons after Nagasaki. Even if it did, delivering a weapon against the Soviet Union would have been problematic. The Enola Gay was sent over a country virtually denuded of air defense. The Soviet Air Force was a formidable foe, and it's not clear an America bomber could have made it to Russia at all.

    Besides, though the U.S. had the atomic secret, the Soviets knew about the project and knew it was only a matter of time (not much, at that) before they could replicate the weapon.

    The only real chance of preventing Russian hegemony in the East would have been to invade France in 1943, which the British opposed (probably for good reason.) Outside of that, Eastern Europe was going to be in the Russian sphere of influence, especially given that the Russians poured out most of the blood in fighting Hitler.
     
  16. Ben W

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    That is exactly the problem RSR, what should the allies have done in hindsight?

    I am not advocating that Russia ought to have been attacked. That would have resulted in many many lives lost in a long and bloody conflict.

    Yet were the allies right to forsake Estonia and allow them to be slaughtered in the fashion that they were. Was any pressure ever exerted on Russia to withdraw from Estonia after WW2?
     
  17. rsr

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    Sure, the Soviets were "pressured" to do lots of things, including withdrawing from the Balkans and allowing free elections in Poland and Czechoslovakia et al.

    The Soviets, with the force on the ground, ignored the pressure and sat tight.

    In hindsight, what should have been done? I don't know. Even hindsight is not 20/20 because so many events are contingent upon other events.

    If I had to choose a place to intervene, I would have wished an early demise upon Bismarck or upon Napoleon III, either which might have prevented the Franco-Prussian War that led to the 20th century mess.

    If the life of Alexender II had been spared from his assassins, there is a good chance that Russia might not have gone down the path of communism. Stolypin was on the right track, as Lenin knew. A few more years ...
     
  18. Bro. James

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    Is it possible: that all of these things happened or did not happen because of the Sovereign Will of God?

    Most wars seem to be about the control of gold, land and crude oil or whatever commodities necessary for the acquisition of more gold, land and crude oil.

    Then there are the "Crusades" and the "Terror Wars"--all with religious facades.

    Is there no boundary to the depths of man's depravity?

    Let us not forget the "longest war"--the one against God--it still rages.

    Even so, come Lord Jesus.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  19. Ben W

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    What is interesting to note is that in many wars Christians maim and kill one another, yet share the same faith in Christ. I dont think though that is Gods will. Note that I am not trying to be in any way rude, that is just my thoughts.
     
  20. blackbird

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    You're tryin' to start a war, ain't 'cha Ben??? [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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