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Featured Washington’s Al Qaeda doesn’t exist and never did

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Let's see where have I seen this political maneuver before. Hmmm, when was it? Oh yeah right after the school shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary school. That's right, the liberals and democrats all came out to "dance in the blood of the victims" to defend and further their anti second amendment agenda.

    "It's all the gun owners fault this happened shame on you shame on you, give up your guns now!" They said.

    If I remember right the GOP adamantly disagreed with this argument when the democrats used it to defend and further their agenda.

    But I imagine now the GOP agrees with it because it's being used in this instance to defend their overt military interventionist policy. Even more so because it was the overt military interventionist foreign policy and the destruction and occupation of Iraq that drew "Al Qaeda" there in the first place!

    There was no "Al Qaeda" in Iraq to speak of until then. Hmmm, come to think of it there was no active chemical or nuclear weapons program in Iraq like we were told either but hey, who are we to question the wisdom of the neocon infested GOP and the corporate media? The bombs had all gone off as planned a million were killed, a million more had to flee the country or be caught in a sectarian war then "Al Qaeda" showed up but no WMDs, no nuclear weapons programs showed up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_tFKa2_YBQ

    What's a couple million dead and displaced Iraqis compared to ridding the world of an evil dictator (we helped raise to power) and his non existent weapons of mass destruction programs?

    Those 34 deaths were caused by "your" neocon overt interventionist nation building policy that allies with countries who fund and arm "Al Qaeda".

    See what our Saudi Arabian and Qatari "allies" and their friendly radical Islamic mercenaries have been and are doing to Christians in Libya and Syria for further details. Why aren't our bestest allies in the middle east funding and arming the Christians that are being slaughtered instead of the people murdering them? Well, that's pretty obvious isn't it?

    Who should we blame for these deaths?

    CMG Using one of Obama and the democrat's favorite guilt trips by "dancing in the blood of victims" to defend the GOP. My my, and he has the nerve to associate me with Obama? :tonofbricks:

    I'm curious CMG tell me is there any talking points coming from the democrats and republicans that haven't come straight from the National Socialist's playbook?
     
    #81 poncho, Dec 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2013
  2. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    No, I am using the Islamic atrocities of Christmas Day to illustrate that Al Qaeda is widespread and powerful, contrary to the thread that says Al Qaeda is not formidable.

    The Saudis repeated again that the Democrat policy in the Middle East threatens to destabilize the region in relation to our Syrian and Iranian policy.
     
  3. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    There is no such claim being made in this thread CMG. You wanna try using a talking point that might apply?

    Wow one minute I'm responsible for the deaths of 34 people because I disagree with the interventionist policy that ultimately resulted in their deaths and now I'm in disagreement with Washington's bestest ally in the middle east that just happens to be a state sponsor of terrorism.

    What was I thinking? Boy Howdy the GOP is gonna be upset with me now! :eek:
     
    #83 poncho, Dec 26, 2013
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  4. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    You are not responsible for the actions of Al Qaeda. That was never stated nor implied. You said Washington's Al Qaeda never existed. Yet they are still out there and in the news daily.
     
  5. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm glad I'm not being held responsible for what "Al Qaeda" has done in Iraq. I was in disagreement with the GOP over invading Iraq from the git go and had the red white and blue version of the "Goering Factor" used on me more times than I can count for it.

    I never said "Washington's Al Qaeda never existed" what I have said and have been saying all along is "Washington's Al Qaeda" never existed as a centralized global terror organization.

    That was the neocon message that all the agreeable GOPers and corporate media sent out whenever they wanted to scare us into accepting more tyranny like the patriot acts, warrant less spying and torture or ignoring international law and the Geneva Convention.

    To hear the neocons and corporate media tell it there was an "Al Qaeda" member under everyone's bed so if we wanted to be safe we had to end any and all critical thought and criticism of the neocons and give up our liberties and live in a state of constant fear and surveillance.

    "That old constitution can't keep you safe from the omnipresent threat of "Al Qaeda" only a bigger more intrusive government that is able track and trace your every move and capture and record all your private communications and declare you an "enemy combatant" without any charges, evidence, trial or legal restraint can do that" they kept telling us.

    Now thanks in large part to Washington and Wall Street's interventionist policy the GOP readily agreed to the Christians in Iraq may be facing their own extinction.

    Good going GOP! "Al Qaeda in Iraq" couldn't have done it without your help.

    But wait! That's not all! According to the corporate sponsored neocon planners at PNAC, Heritage and Brookings at least five more countries should be "liberated" by a sudden shower of our "love bombs". Obama ever the opportunist and pliable vassal of the global elite continued the interventionist policy of the neocons but in a more loving and tolerant "humanitarian" covert fashion by unleashing hordes of Islamic murderers backed by Washington and Wall Street's BFFs in the middle east Saudi Arabia and Qatar on Libya and Syria to divide and hack the populations into submission to Allah and the global central bankers.

    Good going democrats! Thanks in large part to your dumb silence and blind faith in an imposter that cannot tell the truth about anything Christians in Libya and Syria may be facing their own extinction soon.

    There is just one interventionist policy CMG and if we keep pursuing it through one administration after another like we have been it may well be our undoing. But then like you keep reminding me the GOP disagrees so here's a word of warning.

    Fasten your seat belt because blowback from this insane corporatist policy is inevitable.
     
    #85 poncho, Dec 27, 2013
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  6. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Don't worry, Poncho, your policy aligns well with Obama and he is in power until '16.
     
  7. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    You remind me of that kid that doesn't want to hear what his parents are saying so he sticks his fingers in his ears sticks his tongue out and makes a weird annoying sound while jumping up and down till his parents stop talking.

    Problem is you and the GOP don't seem to notice much less care how many Christians have been killed and displaced because of "your" foreign policy. That was based on lies and distortions same as Obama's.

    I'm against allowing Islamist murderers killing Christians and chasing them out of their homelands. I'm even against being allies with a state sponsor of terrorism like Saudi Arabia. But of course the GOP disagrees. They love the Saudis and their liver eating Islamic mercs. I mean hey what's not to like right? They work cheap using their swords so we don't have to keep sending them boatloads of ammo and they eat the livers of the Muslim and Christian infidels they butcher so supplying meat isn't really a problem either.

    But like you have shown us the GOP is okay with all that so by disagreeing with the GOP that must make me unpatriotic and a danger to the country.

    Right Hermann?

    Here's a wild idea CMG instead of repeating the same old worn out neocon meme that has been proven false by two U.S. National Intelligence Estimates, the International Atomic Energy Agency and even the Israeli's own intelligence analysts till your nose grows so big you can't walk into your house anymore why not try repeating the truth over and over till it sinks in?

    "There is no evidence that Iran is trying to acquire nuclear weapons"

    "There is no evidence that Iran is trying to acquire nuclear weapons"

    "There is no evidence that Iran is trying to acquire nuclear weapons"

    "There is no evidence that Iran is trying to acquire nuclear weapons"

    "There is no evidence that Iran is trying to acquire nuclear weapons"

    "There is no evidence that Iran is trying to acquire nuclear weapons"

    Hey maybe that's why you couldn't find any evidence that Iran is trying acquire nuclear weapons to support the neocon's endless false claims aka bold faced lies and had to resort to the "Goering Factor" to cover for your complete and utter lack of evidence to support the "big lie" the GOP and their Saudi buddies at News Corp Inc. are so fond of pushing.

    Ya think?

    C'mon buddy use yer noodle. They're lied to you about Iraq, and Libya and Syria and they are lying to you still about Iran. It's time to get our priorities straight and ours ducks in a row. We got a big economic reckoning coming soon, we're broke. Repeat that over and over because that is reality. The bills will come due.

    We don't have the resources economically to make the world safe for democracy and start another war. Sheesh we're already in almost 200 "actions" around the world. China is making fun us, Russia knows we're close to collapse. Think Putin doesn't remember how Reagan put the dagger into the heart of the broken bankrupt USSR? Pretty slick that Reagan getting them involved in arms race they couldn't afford. Think Putin learned anything form that?

    Russia is a threat now, China is a threat now, North Korea is a threat now. Iran is a possible threat in the future.

    There comes a time when ya gotta face some facts. This isn't a poker game anymore it's a matter of survival. We're a wounded animal surrounded by hungry angry predators that we've been toying with for decades. Taking on more trouble is not the right move at this time.

    Think about it.
     
    #87 poncho, Dec 27, 2013
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  8. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    I was shocked that the far-right newspaper The Washington Times ran this article. However, I did some research and found that Margolis has been saying this ever since late 2001.

    "Eric Margolis (Toronto Sun): Lessons from Sept. 11

    Two years after the Sept. 11 suicide attacks on the United States, this earthshaking event remains clouded by mystery and misunderstanding.

    Was al-Qaida behind the operation? Most likely, but not for certain. Secretary of State Colin Powell promised a white paper proving al-Qaida's guilt. It never came.

    A tape that surfaced in late 2001 purporting to show Osama bin Laden gleefully chortling over the attacks, was seen by many in the Arab and Muslim world as a crude fake.

    The 9/11 attacks were planned in Germany and Spain, not Afghanistan, by young men, mostly Saudis, who were educated and westernized.

    Afghanistan's Taliban regime, until four months before 9/11 a recipient of U.S. aid, had nothing to do with the attacks, but did provide a base for al-Qaida, which numbered only 300 members. Most of the "terrorists" in Afghanistan cited by the U.S. were actually independence fighters from neighboring Central Asia. Taliban refused to hand bin Laden, a national hero of the 1980s anti-Soviet war, to the U.S. without proof of his guilt in 9/11, which the U.S. declined to provide.



    Now I understand. The Washington Times buried this until are GW Bush left the presidency and are trying to discredit President Obama because of the wind-down of Bush's two tragic mistakes in Afghanistan and Iraq.
     
  9. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Both of these "mistakes" were planned ahead of 9/11. The government has been covering up Saudi involvement in 9/11. Now Fox News has partnered up with the Saudis.

    We no longer have to wonder why Fox isn't reporting about the rapid spread of Islam and Sharia law in Europe. It isn't in their owner's best interest.

    But don't tell any "conservative" Fox viewers about this they'll just think you are attacking their sacred holy Fox.

    Sunni Faux Snews. Demonizing Shiites and molding American opinion is our business.
     
    #89 poncho, Dec 28, 2013
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  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    The Democrat Party is the champion of your cause. You are on the winning side politically.
     
  11. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    There are no winning sides in an authoritarian political system. There are only those who argue over who should be in control of it.
     
    #91 poncho, Dec 29, 2013
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  12. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Actually, only the Iraq war was planned before 9/11. That was the Neo-Con's prime target. The invasion of Afghanistan was only a dodge. We had bin Laden cornered in the mountains but the military refused to add the additional forces there to capture him. This attitude was reinforced by GW Bush's statement later that bin Laden himself wasn't an important target. Paul Wolfowitz had stated as early as 1989 that a major strategic objective was to invade and occupy Iraq but that "It would take an event like Pearl harbor" to get the American people's support to do that. Well, they got that event in one way or another.
     
  13. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Afghanistan was planned out ahead also. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4587368/

    Bin Laden never really was a priority with the neocons. They not only got their new Pearl Harbor event they got a phantom enemy to fight an endless global war against and of course the MIC got an opportunity for an endless supply of profit. To kill or capture him at that point would be like killing the neocon's golden goose that was the answer to all their prayers.

    Osama Bin Laden and the CIA's "Al Qaeda base" of Mujahedin proxy forces fit the role of the universal enemy perfectly and they were a grand propaganda coup for the neocons who could use them to control public opinion and scare the population into looking in another direction when ever anyone brought up inconvenient facts or questioned their true motives.*

    Which incidentally are written down in detail in a PNAC paper entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses". It closely parallels the "future neocon foreign policy" of global military and economic domination (American Primacy And It's Geostrategic Imperatives) outlined in "The Grand Chessboard" a book written in 1997 by foreign policy wonk and Tri Lateral commission founder Zbigniew Brzezinski. Who is now one of Obama's top foreign policy advisers.

    I've done my homework on the neocons. Obama is every bit under their spell as the Clinton's and Bushies were.

    * Not so unlike what Obama does today with his many scandals and crisis soon as the news of one scandal breaks and people start to take notice another one pops up and the former is pretty much forgotten. The American collective memory only lasts one turn of the news cycle for the most part and anyone who can remember beyond last month is shouted down by the memory hole zombies.
     
    #93 poncho, Dec 29, 2013
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  14. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    No, Poncho, your side has won--Obama has enacted your plan 100%. You are even quoting Carter-Democrat Ziggy Brzezinski
     
  15. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Wow! You're really upset you can't back up your claim against Iran with proof aren't ya CMG? :laugh:

    Don't feel bad buddy the Rev and TND couldn't do it and I doubt very much Sola Saint is going to be able to do it either.

    Look at the bright side you still have a Sunni Muslim dictatorship that'll swear your claim is correct. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #95 poncho, Dec 29, 2013
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  16. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Your side did lose on Iran, however, Poncho, as Democrats are in revolt against you on that point. Poncho, why does your side want to allow the proliferation of atomic bombs in the Middle East? Aren't you "no nukes", Poncho?
     
  17. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    I'm really starting to worry about you CMG. I kinda suspected you were a bit unstable coming into this discussion but I had no way of knowing that forcing you to admit you had no proof to back your claim that Iran has an active nuclear weapons program would drive you over the edge.

    I hope you get well soon buddy. :)
     
  18. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Look at it like this, Poncho, I am not the one quoting Carter-Democrat Zibby Brzezinski in my signature--that's you--but then the Carter folks are experts on Iran....
     
  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    One more time.

    There's one foreign policy. The only beneficiaries of that one foreign policy of endless global military intervention are 1. The global central banks who finance it through the creation of debt. 2. Globalists like Brzezinski and Kissinger that serve the global banks and do their best to bring Brzezinski's quote in my signature line into being. 3. The transnational corporations that supply all the labor, material and "think tanks" and corporate propaganda aka "news and entertainment" to manipulate public opinion. 4. The politicians that depend on the donations of the financiers and transnational corporations to put them in office and keep them in office if they make a few people happy by selling the mass of people out to the financiers and corporations. 5. All the mainstream corporate talking head tv and radio personalities of Fox and MSNBC etc. that make their living keeping us divided and doing damage control for the globalists and keeping us blind to what is right in front of us. 6. Agents of foreign powers that are allowed to buy bully and extort congress into putting their national interests before that of the people of the United States that always end up paying for it in blood and ever increasing amounts of debt.

    Here's the reality on the ground CMG.

    We do not have a "two party system" in the US we have but one party a globalist party that consists of two major bickering factions the GOP and the Democratic party that both serve the same kleptocratic global corporate financier oligarchy.

    If the globalist party had a flag it would consist of a UN blue field speckled with multinational corporate logos and a two headed snake calling each other names while it's tail set's the world on fire.

    That's how I see it. Because that's the way it is.

    My signature line represents opposite ends of the political spectrum CMG. Madison who the GOP adamantly disagrees with represents individual liberty and national sovereignty while Brzezinski represents collectivism and corporate enslavement that I've been arguing against and trying to warn the readers here about since 2004.

    Wait a minute, why am I explaining this to you? You already knew that.
     
    #99 poncho, Dec 30, 2013
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  20. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Ziggy has led you to believing that Al Qaeda is not a significant threat in spite of the fact that they or another branch of Islam sympathetic to them murder innocent people worldwide nearly daily. This is pure Obama Democrat thinking.

    Secondly, you have dismissed Iran as a terrorist state by saying that they do not have any capability. I assume that the reason for that is that you want to hole up in a fortress America in sort of a siege mentality.

    Thirdly, you have said that your foreign policy is the only foreign policy opposed to American foreign policy.

    However, your policy is actually worse than the Obama/Carter policy because it makes us even more vulnerable than the Democrats do. And here is why:

    1. Al Qaeda is a significant threat because it is a combination of the political/military/theological thinking of most Islamic states and therefore is wildly popular behind the Islamic Veil.

    2. Iran is a terrorist state and has not changed since Carter allowed the Shah to be deposed and the terrorists to take over. This contradicts your theology, Poncho.

    3. Hunker in the bunker is a static defense that will be probed until the weak point is found and attacked. It is one of the worst of all possible defenses.

    4. There are both Democrats and Republicans opposed to both the Obama foreign policy and Poncho's party's foreign policy contrary to the evaluation of political thought presented by Poncho's party.
     
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