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Featured Washington’s Al Qaeda doesn’t exist and never did

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Which is all but non-existent and without any merit whatsoever, as his quixotic posts prove.
     
  2. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    And yet the GOP and specifically the establishment neocon faction have been following Ziggy's plan for "American global preeminence" through endless military adventures through several republican and democratic administrations now. Which is exactly what I have been arguing against all along.

    No I have never dismissed Iran as a terrorist state without capabilities. I have said there is no proof Iran has an active nuclear weapons program. Something that you have publicly admitted to.

    What I have done is sinned against the neocons and the corporatist policy of endless global warfare and I have shown that Saudi Arabia is also a terrorist state that has always supported "Al Qaeda" (Sunni Muslim mercenaries) and that your continued support for the terrorist state of Saudi Arabia is very hypocritical. You condemn Iran for being a terrorist state then turn around and defend another terrorist state because it is "our ally" against Iran's Shiite terrorist mercenaries.

    Evidently CMG you don't have a problem with terrorist states per say you have a problem with an Iranian terrorist state. The terrorist states "on our side" are looked at as defenders of freedom and democracy which is such a hypocritical position to take I am amazed you don't notice it. But then again maybe you have noticed and just prefer to go on being hypocritical because that's what being a GOPer in good standing is all about.

    What I have said is the corporatist foreign policy you Ziggy and Kissinger all follow is not an American foreign policy at all it is a globalist foreign policy both major political parties adhere to.

    This should be interesting you've already twisted my words and did the turnaround boogey so many times even you can't even understand what you're saying anymore.

    "Al Qaeda" has been a proxy fighting force of the US govt and Saudi Arabia that is made up of radical foreign Islamic Arab fighters mostly from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Libya since the Afghan Soviet war.

    Iran became a terrorist state in part due to the CIA deposing their elected government and installing a "corporate" friendly dictator through the use of false flag terrorism that the Iranian people hated.

    The "hunker and bunker" isolationist foreign policy you accuse those who prefer to follow America's original foreign policy of peaceful negotiations, trade and avoiding foreign entanglements is nothing but a figment of your neocon fear based propaganda campaign CMG.

    Your's is foreign policy of foreign entanglements such as being allied to terrorist states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar while condemning terrorist states like Iran. It's pure hypocrisy to the 10th power. I believe your greatest fear is that the US will actually come to a peaceful agreement with Iran and prove all your GOP and democratic fear mongering for what is it.

    A dangerous and deceitful fear inducing propaganda campaign used to continue an insane un American anti freedom corporatist policy that amounts to nothing but a huge smash and grab designed to secure transnational corporate military and economic hegemony over the entire world.

    You are the one taking sides with the isolationists CMG. Your policy is the one that seeks to single out and isolate other countries by placing sanctions on them to weaken them so they'll be ready to be "harvested" when yet another regime change boogey can be justified in the eyes of a population who's opinions are manipulated by the agents of foreign powers that have undue influence over our government's policy making process and mass media outlets.

    So because there are democrats and republicans following Ziggy and Kissingers corporatist foreign policy through several administrations it's supposed to make me and all the founding fathers that warned us about this type of corporatist foreign policy all dangerous radicals?

    Please CMG for your own good fix that skipping CD before it drives you completely insane. The more you defend your corporatist foreign policy the more absurd you are sounding.

    Here's the good news. People all over the world are waking up to the reality that the corporatist foreign policy you champion of enslaving western nations by debt and middle eastern and African nations by the sword is insane and dangerous to us all.

    Even your esteemed demopublican foreign policy mentor Ziggy himself is openly complaining about the world wide political awakening happening. The corporatists are running scared because the truth is catching up to their lies and manipulations. Quite frankly the world is waking up to the fact your policy is just a more advanced scientific form of fascism and are rejecting it. The British people rejected it and look what happened. You, Obama the GOP and the terror masters in Saudi Arabia didn't get to do their smash and grab in Syria. Now the Syrian government is kicking your "Al Qaeda" terrorist proxy forces butts but good. Boo hoo. The tide is turning against your corporatist policies and it has nothing to do with being a democrat or republican. It has everything to do with seeing through the total hypocrisy and deceit of your global fascist foreign policy.
     
    #102 poncho, Dec 31, 2013
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  3. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Says the man that gets all his news and information from Sunni Faux Snews. :laugh:
     
    #103 poncho, Dec 31, 2013
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  4. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Poncho, here is you are in left field:

    1. Iran has been an enemy since Ziggy and the San Francisco Democrats led by Carter deposed the Shah. Contrary to what you say, the CIA was not involved but Ziggy/Carter withdrew support and allowed the Islamofascists to assume power. Iran has been long involved in terrorism and still is active. You dismiss Iran as a current player and make no provision to counter Iran.

    2. The Saudis are a mixed bag but the are generally our allies. They have a lot of wealth and a lot of them use it privately, as you reference.

    3. It has nothing to do with Shiite and Sunni, for both are involved in Islamofascism.

    4. Saudi Arabia is not the only Islamic state against the Iranian enrichment of uranium. It also includes Jordan and Egypt and the smaller states as all are targets of the Iranians.

    5. You will have to deal with the neo-cons separately, as I do not believe that their foreign policy is affordable although it would be a lot better than anything that you have suggested. Islam must be contained as communism was. So you are wasting your time talking about neo-cons and endless wars as that just sounds like hippie talk.
     
  5. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Disagreeing with this hypocritical policy does not make me a leftist any more than your defense of this hypocritical policy makes the GOP right.


    The great and wonderful Shah was a totalitarian dictator installed by the CIA after it used a false flag terror campaign to depose the Iranian's elected government. You are claiming that the Iranians haven't got a right to be upset because the CIA used terrorism to overthrow their government and you are calling the CIA that have openly bragged about their use of false flag terrorism to overthrow the Iranian's elected government to install a corporate friendly dictator liars.

    That's hypocritical to the 11th power. On the one hand you are defending terrorist states and the use of terrorism that serve your agenda while on the other hand condemning a terrorist state that refuses to serve your agenda.

    If that ain't hypocrisy then it must be just plain ole insanity.

    And you fail to take into account the Iranian people who would love to be friends and trade with America in spite of what their government says or does. The Iranian people don't even like their government and would welcome a friendly relationship with us without us having to kill a couple million of them. For some strange reason you can't seem to fathom people are alot friendlier and more agreeable if you aren't impoverishing them with sanctions the corporate interests find ways around to trade with Iran anyway and threatening to drop bombs on their heads every other minute.

    They are the supporters of Islamic terrorists and responsible for the spread of radical Islam more so than the Iranians any way you slice it CMG. Make up your mind already either you are in favor of terrorism or you are against it. One brand of terrorism is no more to be favored than an another.

    That's just absurd and there's a couple thousand years of history that proves it.

    And you know this how from listening to the same people that are lying to you about Iran having an active nuclear weapons program in spite of the complete lack of evidence?

    Give it break already man. If they'll lie to you about Iran having an active nuclear weapons program they'll lie to you about anything.

    Oh sure and we're going to contain Islam by listening to Sunni Faux Snews talking heads that keep neglecting to report on the spread of Islam and Sharia law in Western Europe because it would look bad for their Sunni Islamic owners and corporate sponsors. Oiy!

    If there is such a thing as Islamofascism we don't have to look any further than Sunni Fox News to see it in action.

    How would we know the founder's foreign policy wouldn't be better than the corporatist all war all the time everywhere policy that we've been using since the end of WWII?

    Here's the real deal CMG it no longer matters what you and the democrats and republicans think. The world is waking up to all the lies and all the corruption and lawlessness of the corporatist captured western "democracies".

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2068092#post2068092

    People are sick of being manipulated, frightened and bullied by a bunch of sicko fascist psychopaths that want to rule the whole world.

    The message of liberty and freedom is gaining ground by leaps and bounds because your message of war, wars and more war for total control and enslavement by corporate interests is being revealed for what it is.

    A plea for even more global fascist imperialism.

    And we don't even have to stoop to being hypocrites bullies and demonizers to spread our message.
     
    #105 poncho, Dec 31, 2013
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  6. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    And The Country Posing The Greatest Threat to Peace as 2013 Ends is …

    (CNSNews.com) – The past year witnessed bloodshed in Syria and Iraq, turmoil in Egypt, anarchy in Central Africa, threats by a nuclear-armed North Korea and Chinese military posturing, but as 2013 ends a global poll finds that the country seen as representing the greatest threat to peace today is ... the United States.

    Not only did the U.S. top the list with an aggregate of 24 percent, but the runner-up threat country, Pakistan, was way behind at eight percent. China was third at six percent, followed by North Korea, Iran and Israel at five percent each.

    The survey of opinions across 65 countries by pollster Win/Gallup International recorded some of the strongest anti-American sentiment, predictably, in countries widely regarded as rivals, led by Russia (where 54 percent of respondents said the U.S. was the greatest threat to peace) and China (49 percent).

    But the view that the U.S. poses the greatest threat to peace was also strongly held in some purported U.S. allies – such as NATO partners Greece and Turkey (45 percent each), and Pakistan (44 percent), which is also a top recipient of U.S. aid.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...ountry-posing-greatest-threat-peace-2013-ends


    Like I said the world is rejecting your insane corporate fascist foreign policy and all the hypocritical arguments and false claims that have sustained it thus far.

    Have a Happy New Year CMG. :D
     
    #106 poncho, Dec 31, 2013
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  7. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Now you are talking the straight Obama line. Iran is enriching uranium. They may not have the ICBMs and the atomic bombs at this moment but they might in the next moment. The idea that the news is lying about the fear of Iran in the Middle East is straight Obama foreign policy.
     
  8. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Iran may be a unique case as a threat to the United States. However, unique means rare. Given our history since WW2, how many conflicts should we have stayed out of? Vietnam and Iraq top the list. Those two conflicts were based on fabricated lies. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution for one, and the presence of weapons of mass destruction for the other. The first conflict cost 58,000 lives and billions of dollars, and the second, 4500 lives and trillions of dollars. And for what? One could add to that list Grenada, Panama, Croatia, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, etc, etc, etc.

    Again, to dismiss what Poncho is trying to say based on Iran alone is totally baseless. What makes the United States obligated to right the entire world to our image? Where is the Constitution does this come from? How many of these conflicts were entered into by Constitutional standards, that is, to declare war?
     
    #108 saturneptune, Jan 1, 2014
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  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Both Vietnam and Iraq had widespread Democrat support. Iraq was based on faulty intelligence. To say that Iran has not been a threat since Carter is misleading. We should allow Israel to attack Iran and destroy their nuclear program and their ICBM developments. To say that Islam is not a fascism that must be contained is to ignore even American history with Islamofascism dating back to colonial times.

    As for US power, it is waning as the Democrats are now dismantling the military along political ideological lines, as you know. We must get rid of people like McConnell and Boehner who cooperate with liberalism behind closed doors. We must prepare to use our very limited means more effectively as no one predicts an economic recovery in 2014 under current Democrat inept leadership.
     
  10. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    The intell wasn't faulty it was ignored and replaced with lies and fear mongering propaganda.

    The bottom line here is this folks, guys like CMG and TND are so hoplessly stuck in the false left vs right paradiwgm that thinking outside of it is impossible for them. For them right and wrong doesn't enter into it and they are here to make sure it never does.

    Look at what CMG is telling us. Terrorism isn't wrong if Washington and it's allies dabble in it. It's only wrong if the countries Washington and it's corporate sponsors want to invade and loot dabble in it. Al Qaeda mercenaries that are supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar murder Christians but that's okay because they are "our allies". Yet the same people will use Saudi Arabia's Al Qaeda mercanaries as a boogeyman to frighten us into consenting to more wars.

    The "war on terror" is a hoax. Al Qaeda is one of Washington's greatest assets. Not only is Al Qaeda a proxy fighting force used to destabilize the countries the neocons want to loot it's the perfect boogeyman to use against the American people whenever Washington decides it's time
    to expand it's power and control over us.
     
    #110 poncho, Jan 1, 2014
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  11. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    This is a very false twisting of my points:

    What you are saying, Poncho, is the straight liberal Democrat line of Carter/Obama/Hillary.
     
  12. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Actually I just put your argument in perspectice CMG. You were the one doing all the twisting. This is just the latest example.

    What I am saying is Washington has had the same interventionist foreign policy since WWII. And you've been going on and on about democrat this and GOP that. Your whole arguement boils down to this, you don't like the way democrats handle Washington's interventionist foreign policy. All of your ranting and raving about democrats liberals and hiipies has blinded you to one simple incontrivertable fact.


    Washington has had the same interventionist foreign policy since WWII! The party in power changes but the core interventionist foreign policy of isolating, starving, destabilizing, bombing, strafing and looting never ever changes.

    All the ranting and raving about democrats, liberals and hippies is just a distraction from reailty.

    Washington has had the same interventionist foreign policy since WWII! Your real problem with Washington's foreign interventionist policy in a nutshell is this, the democrats don't isolate, starve, destabilize, bomb and strafe other nations hard enough to make them submit to Washington and Wall Street's rule fast enough to suit you and the GOP.
     
    #112 poncho, Jan 1, 2014
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  13. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    So what you want is yet another meaningless, costly war like Viet Nam, Afghanistan and Iraq? What did we gain from any of those wars except the hatred of most of the world, a lot of blood lost and wasted money that could have been put to much better use? The policy that you support is exactly what has destroyed America.
     
  14. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Let me clarify, FTW, I think that Israel should attack Iran with our blessing. As for Vietnam, that was a Democrat war. Iraq was the result of faulty intelligence capabilities and was first advocated by Clinton, as you know. As for Afghanistan, it was where Osama was at one time and was supported by the Democrats also. Now the Democrats are running that war.

    If you read, you cannot find where I have called for another US war. I have merely argued that Al Qaeda is a worldwide threat because it unifies Islam and that the threat is real and that Iran is a real threat.

    Poncho has taken the point of view that is being espoused by Obama that Al Qaeda never was a threat and ceased to be one by the time of the execution of Osama. Obama furthermore has said that we will lift sanctions on Iran in exchange for their verbal pledge not to pursue the atomic bomb. Is the Obama policy a good one in your eyes, FTW?

    I am through. My position has been clearly stated many times and can be read above. I disagree with everything that Poncho has written here on this thread.
     
  15. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Want he wants is for the GOP to be in control of all the isolating, starving, distabilizing, bombing, strafing and looting of other nations.

    He doesn't care what the costs are and I very much doubt he could name the benefits of Washington's interventionist policy without ranting about democrats, liberals and hippies. More so than that I doubt very much he cares which country Washington leads us to war with so long as Washington is leading us into another war GOP style.

    Isolating, starving, destabilizing, bombing and strafing any country not under Washington and Wall Streets thumb.

    And yes he does disagree with everything I said in this thread because what I have said exposes all the misconceptions, half truths, lies and hypocrisy Washington's foreign interventionist policy has been based on for sixty plus years.

    Washington's Al Qaeda is a threat to us but not as CMG would have us belive "it's a centralized global force for evil" but rather because Washington's Al Qaeda was created by Washington and has been used by Washington as a destabilizing proxy force du jour spreading Islamic extremism and innocent blood in almost every nation Washington has done the regime change boogey in ever since.
     
    #115 poncho, Jan 1, 2014
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  16. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Make that 110 years as that's how long Washington has been protecting corporate interests through the policy of "regime change".

    Iraq, Libya and Syria are just the latest in a long line of nations Washington has done the pre-emptive regime change boogey on in the last 110 years.

    Now we're being manipulated into revisiting the disasterous results of Washington's regime change boogey in 1953 Iran that led to the Iranian revolution and the rise of the radical Mullahs.

    Once again the regime change boogey is being championed by those who are blinded by partisan politics and the Wilsonian urge to "make the world safe for democracy".

    Will we ever learn?
     
    #116 poncho, Jan 2, 2014
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  17. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I've mostly avoided posting in this thread, given its originator is a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist with an endless supply of tin-foil hats and very little to go on but passion -- which would be admirable if he'd apply it to anything other than anti-American rhetoric and nutball, hair-brained "plots" allegedly hatched by ethereal, shadowy figures who, except for truthfully being non-existent in the reality, have nothing in common except high-dollar suits and an insane desire to rule the world. Kinda like "Pinkie," I guess.

    However, the title of the thread would imply that al-Qaeda is non-existent, which is nothing beyond a bald-faced lie. It is the "product" the Great Pretender attempted to sell the U.S. public after bin Laden was dispatched as shark food into the Indian Ocean. Yeah, Ponch, despite your foolishly unreasonable denials, that actually did happen.

    The truth is, President Bush realized that al-Qaeda was, and still is, a wraith, a specter, an apparition -- capable of bringing death and destruction to any target we are too foolish and slothful to protect. When the Great Pretender was briefed on al-Qaeda, he must have slept through this part of the lecture -- if he bothered listening at all. The American Enterprise Institute, on the other hand, not only was listening, but continues to do so.

    In The al Qaeda Network: A New Framework for Defining the Enemy, AEI gives a clear outline and definition of exactly what al-Qaeda is, and it ain't nuthin' like our ol' buddy Ponch has tried to portray it -- as either a figment of "corporatist" imagination or an invention of the puppets the "corporatists" own.

    It's important that we see al-Qaeda as a real, tangible enemy, even if that enemy is able to make itself so invisible as to convince gullible people like Ponch that they don't really exist, but are the necessary invention of some nefarious dark arm of the government -- which is, in fact, the thing that doesn't exist in Ponch's insatiable thirst to make something sinister and diabolical out of a merely incompetent and overgrown government.

    So you think al-Qaeda "doesn't exist" as the pols in Washington have defined them? You might be right. That doesn't mean they aren't real. As the people of Iraq could tell you.

     
    #117 thisnumbersdisconnected, Jan 2, 2014
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  18. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Translated "nevermind the 110 year old history of Washington's regime change policy. It does't mean anything. Never mind it was Washington's regime change policy that crushed democracy in Iran in 1953 which led to the Iranian revolution and the rise of radical Mullahs. Nevermind five American presidents helped fund the Taliban and Al Qaeda and used them as proxy forces to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan. Our motives and actions are always pure and never lead to any unintended consequences so declareth we the neocons!"

    Let's just forget the past and do the regime change boogey . . . one more time y'all.

    After all it was Obama that said "we should keep looking forward instead of backward" a sentiment TND and CMG whole heartedly agree.

    Like their progressive great grand daddy Woodrow Wilson they both agree that "making the world safe for democracy" is what America was born to do.

    I believe TND and CMG could both make a great living composing ads and tv commercials for big pharma selling wonder drugs. "This pill will cure your hiccups nevermind all the dangerous side effects that may include drowsiness, heart palpitations, difficulty breathing, low self esteem, deprssion, violent or suicidal tendencies or death."

    Get your pills today by dialing 1-800-NEW-DRUG
     
    #118 poncho, Jan 2, 2014
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  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    AEI? A neocon infested corporate funded think tank? Who's sponsors are profiting from the GWOT and the huge big brother surveillance state being built all around us?

    These guys are all connected to the military/security industrial complex. Of course they're going to tell us there is an Al Qaeda terrorist under every bed. That's how they earn their beans and bacon. This is the kind of corporate/government relationship that gives "corporatism" it's name. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Enterprise_Institute

    Talk about relying on compromised sources. Sheesh.

    What's next? Yep. Sunni Faux Snews.

    Civilian death toll in Iraq highest in years, fueling concern of Al Qaeda 'resurgence'

    The violence in Iraq began to surge in April, after the Shiite-led government staged a deadly crackdown on a Sunni protest camp.

    Iraq's Al Qaeda branch has fed on Sunni discontent and on the civil war in neighboring Syria, in which mostly Sunni rebels fight a government whose base is a Shiite offshoot sect. It has targeted civilians, particularly in Shiite areas of Baghdad, with waves of coordinated car bombings and other deadly attacks.

    Iraq's Al Qaeda branch? Where do they come up with this stuff? Anyone with a beard and an AK-47 is considered Al Qaeda by the corporate talking heads.

    This does not prove Al Qaeda is a global centralized terrorist organization. All it proves is Al Qaeda can be anyone the corporate media says it is.

    So here's an idea TND hear me out. We go back to Iraq and drop a few more tons of expensive ordinance and spend oh I don't know several billion more dollars and get more of our troops killed and maimed killing off the foreign Sunni "Al Qaeda" terrorists that flocked to Iraq from Saudi Arabia, Libya and Syria (where our middle eastern allies are still funding and arming them against the Shiites in Syria) after we occupied Iraq.

    How's that sound? In other words we go back over and do the same that brought all the "Al Qaeda" foreign fighters into Iraq.

    That would be way better than just telling our middle eastern allies to stop funding and arming Islamic terrorists.
     
    #119 poncho, Jan 2, 2014
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  20. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Iraq was the result of a Neo-Con objective long before 9/11. Paul Wolfowitz stated in his Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces And Resources For A New Century (1989), that the Republican objective was to invade and occupy Iraq. His concern was that the American people would not support the invasion unless there was "an event similar to Pearl Harbor." They got it in one way or another and thereby justified the attack.
     
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