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Discussion in 'Politics' started by Rufus_1611, Apr 26, 2007.
Who do you believe established that waterboarding is not torture?
Anonymous CIA officers:
Vice President Dick Chaney:
In all fairness, after this, Tony Snow said that Mr. Chaney did not know that "dunking in water" was a reference to water boarding. Source
In my water rescue training, we each had to undergo something very similar to "waterboarding". Funny, but we never considered it torture. It was a game to us.
It's no more serious than the time the libs got all upset that we were making prisoners stand up for prolonged periods of time.
Political correctness gone insane. Shame on you liberals for your untiring devotion to the destruction of our president and this nation.
We don't torture, that's why we have a program known as extraordinary rendition. In other words..."we don't personally torture, we outsource it to profesionals in foreign countries."
It's a liberal position to be opposed to torture? Are you declaring the U.S. Army to be liberal?
What if the Nazi Waffen SS engaged in these tactics? Would you find them to be acceptable then? Or is it only acceptable when a "conservative" does it?
Let me ask you a more pertinent question. Is torturing a human being made in the likeness and image of God a pro-Christ position?
Endurance training by being dunked is quite different. If you are captured by an enemy and they do this, you don't know if they will let you drown or not. Torture is for cruel regimes that violate human rights. I am ashamed of my government when it resorts to such tactics.
Perhaps, he thought it was a baptism?
I wonder if the folks on the wrong side of the papists thought waterboarding was torture...
If they're held up and dunked then it's torture but if they are drowned with a rag it's something else...
Rufus, I don't know if waterboarding is torture or not. If it is, then I was tortured, in many many more ways than this.
But since our government seems to believe it is not torture, (and don't give me the "only Bush & Cheney do that line, they didn't invent information extraction") I say let's put some of these amnesiac officials on the table. I'm sick of the "I don't remember" garbage, from both sides. I was expressing frustration on our over paid & under worked Washingtonites.
If I can't give you the only Bush & Cheney do that line, then tell me who in our government. Also, waterboarding historically has been used not for "information extraction" but for confessions. The torturer gets the torturee to confess some crime they didn't commit and they are only confessing to stop the torture. Thus, there is no intelligence gathering benefit to the torture.
Waterboarding was torture during the inquisitions, it was torture during Nazi Germany, it was torture when the Khmer Rouge used it, it was torture when Habre used it, the U.S. Army says it's torture, why is it not torture when American Neocons sponsor it?
You said "waterboarding has been established to not be torture", and have now stated that "our government seems to believe it is not torture". Thus, I ask you again, who in our government has established that waterboarding is not torture?
Rufus, it was a joke, and I'm not going to discuss it further.
The libs will get upset if prisoners are made to sit for prolonged periods of time, too.:laugh:
Are you really claiming Rufus is a liberal? :laugh: I'm sure that's news to him.... (hi Rufus :wavey: )
Now me, I am liberal leaning in a lot of areas. I do not have an untiring devotion to destroy the President. There is a HUGE difference between voicing our concerns about his performance and wanting to destroy him.
I am not even going to justify your comment about wanting to destroy our nation, other than to say you are going off the deep end. I love my country. Enough said.
No I don't condone torture. But I don't define water boarding as torture. I would not matter a whit what means our people tried to gather intelligence, the liberals would deem it torture, as long as GWB or any other Republican were in power. If he (a Christian) were part of an evil plot, which is doubtful, he is an enemy of mine and I'd want all information I could get, if American or our allies' lives were at stake. I'd worry far less about their welfare than a non-believer.
Sound Like you are condoning tortue.
If you don't condone torture then it should matter a whit.
In other words, Rufus you are correct concerning water-boarding, but Curtis will not admit it.
That's alright, I get called "right-wing" by the left and "liberal" by the neo-right. These labels are the pillows of dittoheads. Whenever someone disagrees with one of the party talking points, it is most comforting to call someone a name and think they have the matter figured out. However, if they searched the matter further they would find that they are pawns of Hegelianism for there is no truth in the two-party, two-idealogy system. The truth is somewhere in between, and requires the "left" to listen to the "right" and the "right" to listen to the "left", and all the average joes to unite to wrestle against the common enemy rather than each other.
No I don't condone gluttony. But I don't define eating two dozen donuts as gluttony.
No I don't condone adultery. But I don't define sex with someone else's spouse adultery.
Let's just redefine everything to suit us.
Well at least we've identified where our differences lie. I do not know how anyone can research waterboarding and not find it to be torture. To reiterate an earlier point, if we were looking at this issue outside of our nationalistic biases and were looking at say, the Spanish Inquisition, I would expect that all would consider it to be torture.
Just more macabre humor I guess.