Waterboarding

You are getting your talking points mixed up. The party line is: waterboarding is torture, but we dunking prisoners, not waterboarding them.

 

Back in the late 60's my brother-in-law, a cop, had a case where the suspect wouldn't crack. A woman was beheaded, dismembered, her entrails fed to neighborhood dogs, and her body parts dumped in the open in various parts of a city neighborhood. Her head was missing.

We knew it wasn't her husband because he was in a sanitarium with TB. It could only be a neighbor with which she was having an affair, and he wouldn't confess to it. "Psychologists" worked on him, "psychiatrists" worked on him, "educated" cops worked on him, and "boxers" worked on him, but they just couldn't crack anything of him.

My brother-in-law and I and a few of his fellow cops were having beer in a restaurant just across the police precinct, and talking about the case, and about how tough the guy was, and I suggested something jokingly. We were a bit tipsy then, so everybody thought the idea was fun.

About two blocks away from police hq there was this hawker who sold his goods by putting on a show. He had a big boa constrictor in a box which he let out, handled and petted in front of a crowd, and finally fed with a chicken. The snake was about 10 feet long.

We borrowed the constrictor from the hawker, and let it loose in the suspect's cell while the suspect slept. Constrictors generally coil around themselves when full. This one was full. But he was crawling around because the cell was warm, he needed a cooler place to rest.

We made sure it was full, since nobody wanted to have to cut the snake open and present a suspect with broken bones and dislocated shoulders to the judge.:laugh:

Imagine his terror when he woke up and sees the snake crawling around his cell. He screamed his lungs out, begged us to get him out of there, agitated the snake with all his hollering and running around and climbing up the cell bars. We refused to budge unless he told the truth.

He showed us where he killed her, how he did it, and where he buried her head.

Could that be torture ?

 

Really ? You're serious ?

A guy who kills a woman, beheads her, buries her head, chops her up and spreads parts of her chopped up body, uncovered, in her immediate neighborhood, and then feeds her innards to neighborhood dogs, should be released ?

And decorated cops put in prison because they got him to confess, albeit in an unorthodox way ?

Really, Terry, I refuse to believe you're serious.

Oh, by the way, that snake was harmless.

He was full, and boa constrictors have no poison, and, then, the owner was around to grab it in case things got out of hand.

 

The problem is that if we start saying the end justifies the means in a situation like that, then we will all find ourselves back in the days of the rack and iron maiden and many innocent people will be tortured for no good reason. If most folks think their lives are in immediate jeopardy they will confess to almost anything. The case will nearly always be "solved," but justice will not be served.

BTW, here is an article on waterboarding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

 

Yes!

This has nothing to do with this persons guilt or innocence. It is about crossing the line to get a confession. Seem like if you were half the policeman you claim to be, you would be able to find evidence to convict this person without reverting to such inappropriate tacits.

I wonder what a court would say about procuring a confession in this manner.

 

Video

There are several videos on youtube about waterboarding,here is Fox.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,227357,00.html


After seeing the graphic evidence it is unchristlike.

There is a guy on youtube just type in waterboarding his name is uncle bile who is a crazy be warned some of those graphic videos are filled with violence and bad words.


I agree with John McCain on this we are lowering ourselves.

 

Assuming that the perpetrater was not deathly afraid of snakes, then no harm was done but what if the perp. had been deathly afraid of snakes and died of a heart attack then maybe it wouldn have been so harmless then.
Same thing about waterboarding , one could maybe console themselves that they are only using it as an effective means to get a confession from a guilty party. It is unfortunate that innocent people may have to go through this , who will pay the consequences for having tortured an innocent person.

 

Yeah, because it's really not important that he's a murderer, and letting him go might mean someone else's life, that's for someone else to suffer over. What's really important is that a murderer was made to feel badly. Someone must pay.

This demonstrates why the liberals cannot be truted to deliver true justice. They'd rather jail cops than criminals.

Good job, Pinoybaptist.

 

He didn't confess to just "almost anything". He knew where the head was buried. Only the killer would know that. And, by the way, theorists and liberals like some people here do not have the same "gut feeling" that those who are constantly exposed to crime, criminals, lies, and liars have.

And by the way, my brother in law is the cop I once shared about in this board, who died poor, but decorated.

He is the same cop who was offered a large amount of money just to twist his investigation a bit in favor of a victim's relatives, and he refused, because his gut feeling told him the suspect was innocent, and this while he had a daughter in hospital who needed money for medication.

 

Waterboarding islamic terrorists who would rather behead you as to look at you in order to save lives is always justice. And muslims are on their way to hell. You cannot be muslim and Christian.

 

I see. So it is okay to torture non-Christians...

And obviously if we start torturing *only* people we are 'sure' (even before a trial) committed some heinous crime, we will wind up being wrong a pretty high percentage of the time. I would definitely prefer to torture nobody at all. Anyway, how can we be 'sure' before they have even been tried? I like "innocent until proven guilty" better than the other way around. I might look just like some murderer out there somewhere. You gonna torture me until I confess?

There are literally thousands of ways this "torture only the guilty" plan can go wrong. Consider all the people who were executed, served long sentences, died in prison, only to have it proven later that they were innocent. If you don't want to be tortured or have your family tortured for a crime you/they didn't commit, then don't accept torture. The only way to be sure that will not happen is to never torture anyone.

 

That is the most inane statement I have read in a long time.

 

You totally forgot to elaborate.

 

And you know how to identify which ones are terrorist and which ones are not?
Guantanamo is calling you Timothy, they need your expert advice.

 

Which one of Paul's letter in this in? I don't have my Bible handy and can't look it up. Maybe you can give me the verse that teaches us to live this way.

Ok, how about a Chapter, or even if you can just give me the Book it's in, I'll read it over...

Why do some people think it's ok for us to advocate this? I have had my arguements with Bro Curtis, and while I believe in American's right to defend themselves, I don't believe as a Christian we should outright advocate it. Jesus, I am sure didn't "approve" of the way the Romans lived and treated people, but he didn't interfere either with their daily politics and government. Why do we think it's different for us today?

On another thread on this board, that Christian wanted to string up that guy with rope and a tall tree.

I believe we really need to pay less attention to this world and look towards our Heavenly place. Do our job we're here for, and let the rest go.

Jamie