We have to obey Jesus!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Moriah, Jul 17, 2012.

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  1. Moriah

    Moriah
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    I really want to know, who can read these scriptures telling us to obey, but deny them and tell others we do not have to?

    Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling

    Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

    1 John 2:4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    1 John 1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

    1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

    1 John 3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

    1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

    Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

    Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

    John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

    John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

    John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

    John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

    John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

    John 15:20 Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

    Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

    Acts 16:4 As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey.

    Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

    Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

    Romans 15:18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—

    Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

    2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

    2 Thessalonians 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.

    Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

    Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

    1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.

    1 Peter 3:6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

    1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

    1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

    1 John 2:5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:

    1 John 3:22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him.

    1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

    1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

    Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

    Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

    Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
     
  2. The Biblicist

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    You are missing the point! No one is denying we should obey Christ or obey the scriptures. The issue is not over obedience. The issue is over the PURPOSE/MOTIVE for obedience.

    We say the only right purpose for obedience is "LOVE" not IN ORDER TO OBTAIN salvation!

    So-called "obedience" that originates from a WRONG MOTIVE is disobedience in God's sight as God looks ON THE HEART and obedience must be for the glory of God and due to LOVE for God.

    A wicked heart can produce neither motive and that is why God must first give a new heart because the old heart cannot love God or do anything for the glory of God and that is why we must first be "CREATED in Christ Jesus" and then follows "UNTO good works" - Eph. 2:10.

    So the issue is not obedience! The issue is what is the MOTIVE for obedience! You say the motive is IN ORDER TO BE SAVED whereas we say it is the CONSEQUENCE of being saved and having a right heart before God that LOVES Him and seeks to glorify God in everything we say and do.
     
  3. Alive in Christ

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    Because of our relationship with Jesus Christ, we are seen as completly rightious.

    The sinless perfection of Christ has been given, or "credited" to us.

    Its the doctrine of imputed rightiousness.

    We have been completly freed from the law. We live in the newness of the Spirit. and NOT the oldness of the letter.

    The reason is because "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."
     
    #3 Alive in Christ, Jul 17, 2012
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  4. Moriah

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    You too, you read all these scriptures and still have a hard time telling people we have to obey.

    The New Testament is the new law it is the perfect law.

    James 1:25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does.

    NOT FORGETTING WHAT HE HAS HEARD, BUT DOING IT, THEN HE WILL BE BLESSSED IN WHAT HE DOES.
     
  5. Moriah

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    What you teach is nonsense twisted stuff. YOU DO DENY WE HAVE TO OBEY.
    JESUS SAYS THE ONE WHO OBEYS ME IS THE ONE WHO LOVES ME.
    THAT IS MOTIVE ENOUGH TO OBEY JESUS.
     
  6. The Biblicist

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    You cannot answer my response so you resort to redicule and denial and reassertion of your error.

    1. It is a fact that God looketh upon the heart rather than the outward

    2. It is a fact that obedience is to originate from love

    3. It is a fact that EVERYTHING we do we are to do for the glory of God as any other motive is SELFISH.

    4. It is a fact that "good works" are the PRODUCT/CONSEQUENCE/RESULT of first being created in Christ Jesus - Eph. 2:10

    These are all Biblical facts which you ignore and deny!

    Also, it is a fact that I believe all Christians should obey God because they are Christians and are commanded to obey Him.

    Also, it is a fact that a lost person cannot become saved by doing anything for Christ but must receive what Christ has done for him or else THE LOST MAN IS HIS OWN SAVIOR.

    Also, it is a fact that YOU cannot keep God's commandments and I am referring to the TEN commandments as mentioned by James in James 2:10-11. The violation in ONE POINT violates ALL the commandments and to keep any commandment requires keeping ALL the commandments and you are a liar if you say you do - 1 Jn. 1:8-10, also you are claiming to be as good as God - Mt. 5:48.

    The truth is that you ALWAYS come "short of the glory" that belongs to God - sinless perfection - that is the obedience/righteousness required to enter heaven (Mt. 5:20).

    Your profession of faith will not be one whit different than those in Matthew 7:21-23 on judgment day "Lord, Lord......IN THY NAME.....have we not done many wonderful works" and Christ response to them will be his response to all who make that profession on judgement day. Why? Because the saw obedience as a means to be justified before God and obtain heaven just as the rich young ruler did - "What shall I DO to inherit eternal life." This is every religious LOST MAN'S PROFESSION.
     
  7. Yeshua1

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    our behaviour has NOTHING to do with our justification before God though!

    once saved by god, then we will have the desire to obey Him, and the means to do such, but ONLY if we continue to rely upon the holy spirit in us, and keep in the bible/prayer/fellowship etc!

    For IF we still walk in the flesh even after being saved, we might desire to please God, but be found still in sin!
     
  8. Moriah

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    Jesus does NOT need our help in cleansing us from all sins. This does not change the fact that God chooses whom He will save.

    “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” God credited His people with Jesus’ righteousness. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. God credits Jesus’ righteousness to the believer, “This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.” He was made sin because the sins of His people were transferred to Jesus, and in like manner, the believer is made “the righteousness of God.” Christ, who knew no sin of his own became sin for believers, so they, who have no righteousness of their own, are made the righteousness of God through Jesus.

    Through the sacrifice of Jesus, he gives to all those that come to him freedom from the guilt, power, and punishment of sin. Through Jesus, we have grace from God and love. Jesus puts us into perfect holiness, joy, and fellowship with himself and the Father. “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.” Jesus bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Once we were alienated from God and were enemies in our minds because of our evil behavior. But now he has reconciled us by Christ’s physical body through death to present us holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if we continue in our faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. THERE ARE THINGS WE HAVE TO DO. IF WE CONTINUE IN OUR FAITH, ESTABLISHED AND FIRM, NOT MOVED FROM THE HOPE HELD OUT IN THE GOSPEL.

    There are things that we are to do, and here are more things.
    We have cleansing by the washing with water through the word. We are also to purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. WE ARE ALSO TO PURIFY OURSELVES FROM EVERYTHING THAT CONTAMINATES BODY AND SPIRIT, PERFECTING HOLINESS OUR OF REVERENCE FOR GOD. In view of God’s mercy, we are to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God–this is our spiritual act of worship. We are to live according to the Spirit,

    Again, Jesus does NOT need our help in cleansing us from all our sins. Now, how do we come about getting into this saving grace? WE HAVE ACCESS TO THIS GRACE BY FAITH, Romans 5:2.

    By faith, we get access. We believe without doubting. We confess. We trust God. We call on the name of the Lord.
    Is there anything else we might be feeling that is a quality in the person that will be saved? Yes. The Bible says, “Surely his salvation is near those who fear him.”

    Do you think that God does not consider the heart of the person whom He saves? Yes, God considers our heart when He saves us. God who knows our hearts give the Holy Spirit to those He accepts.

    Many people believe in God and Jesus, but they do not feel as though they know God. There are people who say they believe in God and Jesus, but they do not live as they do.
    People are to examine and test themselves, to see if they are in the faith. When they test themselves and still do not know, there are things they can do. If a person examines and tests themselves, and find that they are not in the faith, they should get Jesus’ teachings and start obeying them, and they WILL THEN SEE THAT THEY ARE NOW IN THE FAITH. We have to believe and obey. We cannot just tell people to keep believing they are saved even when they do not think or feel as they are! When someone still does not feel saved, they start obeying, then they will feel saved, as they see themselves transforming.

    Having the desire to obey God does not say you are obeying Him.
    Therefore, it sounds here that you are admitting that we must obey God.

    Then what do you do about it if you found yourself in a sin?
     
    #8 Moriah, Jul 17, 2012
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  9. steaver

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    Brother, you are very confused. You speak of Grace and the sufficiency of Christ and then you digress right back into self preservation. Obeying Jesus' commands will not make anyone feel that they are in the faith. There are cults that obey Jesus' commands and yet they are lost (JWs, Mormons) .

    There is only ONE test to know if you are in the faith and that is Romans 8:16. This is in agreement with Paul's test given in 2Cor13:5..."know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is IN YOU"
     
  10. steaver

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    Brother Moriah,

    Since this is your thread and you are passonate about this subject, I think it would be good for you to teach us just what it means to obey Jesus since this is vital to one's salvation. Don't you think?

    Can you teach us how we should apply this passage to our lives that we may not sin the sin of disobedience......

    "If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26-27)

    I would like to know how I can know if I am obeying this command. You could give an example maybe.
     
  11. Yeshua1

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    or the Apostolic example of peter who said that they had given up 'everything' to follow their lord?
     
  12. Moriah

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    Do you feel better about yourself now that you said that? Do you think it really means something that you say that to me? I do not just think you are very confused, as you say you feel I am, I think you are grossly confused. You see that, do you like it if I tell you what I think of you. Now, you want to check yourself the next time you reply to someone. Leave out the personal opinion of them. None of your personal opinions about me shows that you know the scriptures and their meaning.
    Excuse me, but speaking of PRESERVERING IS NOT A DIGRESSION. This post is about obeying. When is it
    EVER okay, to tell someone to obey is a digression. It is never ever okay. That is twisted doctrines.
    Jesus says he will reveal himself to those who obey them. Do you want to go against Jesus? You will know Jesus if you obey him. How does that not make you feel that you are in the faith?
    For one thing, how do you know they obey Jesus’ commands? For another thing, JW’s and Mormons do not believe Jesus’ teachings! JW’s do not believe Jesus is God. They deny all the scriptures of humans having spirits that live on in consciousness after the death of the body. Mormons do not believe and obey Jesus’ teachings, for the Bible says no other gospel, the Mormons have another gospel.
    The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Romans 8:16.
    What do you think this means? What if someone says they do not hear the Spirit testifying with their spirit? Then what do you tell them. I know what I would tell them.
    How do you think you have passed the test? How do you REALIZE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU?
    Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
     
  13. Moriah

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    Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple.

    Matthew 10:37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;

    John 12:25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

    It is clear how and why we are to hate our father, mother wife, children, bothers, sister, even our own life. That is about forsaking everyone and everything and putting Jesus first. If you put someone else first before the Word of God, then you have forsaken the Truth, the only importance in this life and forever. What is anything in this life if it is not according to the Word? I do not even know how to love my parents, my spouse, my children, my brother, and sister sincerely, if not after obeying the Word.
     
    #13 Moriah, Jul 17, 2012
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  14. savedbymercy

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    Thats what Christ's Death accomplishes for them He died for, their obedience to Him.

    The Father's Election also accomplishes that for the Elect 1 Pet 1:2

    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
     
  15. Moriah

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    Excellent scripture to show we are saved to obey!

    who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:
     
    #15 Moriah, Jul 17, 2012
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  16. DHK

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    There is not a single poster here who denies that we "are saved to obey."

    Salvation is by faith alone.
    Salvation is not by faith plus obedience.
    That is where the disagreement is.
     
  17. Moriah

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    Do you believe we have to believe?

    Do you believe we have to confess?

    Do you believe we have to trust God?

    Do you believe we have to call on the name of the Lord?

    Those are ways how we obey Jesus before we are saved.
     
  18. DHK

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    It sounds like you have been influenced by the Church of Christ. That is why I asked you that question previously. They consider all of the above separate works. That is confusion.

    These are all synonyms: believe, trust, confess, call.
    In calling you believe.
    In confessing you believe.
    Believe and trust are the same word.

    Salvation is by faith and faith alone.
     
  19. Moriah

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    I have no idea what you are talking about when you say ‘separate works.’
    The Church of Christ has in no way influenced me with what you say.
    I have done a small study on their beliefs, and I do not even believe what they say about water baptism.
    Those are not synonyms.
    Are you trying to find a way to admit that what I have been saying is true?
    I hope what you say here is just proof that you are coming around to admitting the truth.
    However, calling out to Jesus to save you is not just to believe.
    Confessing your sins is not just to believe.
    Trusting in God is not just to believe. Many people say they believe in God, but to actually show complete trust is something else.
     
  20. savedbymercy

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    Obedience is exactly what Christ's New Covenant Death and its effects provided to those He died for. Ezk 36:26-27

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    He causes the elect to walk in obedience !

    The same as in 1 Pet 1:2

    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    You see you have obedience following the Work of the Spirit here as Promised in Ezk 36:26-27

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
     
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