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Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Paul F. Eilers, Feb 22, 2004.
[ February 22, 2004, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
Why the link? What are YOUR thoughts and what do you want to debate/discuss here?
Don't just give us a site. We want YOUR ideas.
"What are YOUR thoughts and what do you want to debate/discuss here?"
"Don't just give us a site. We want YOUR ideas."
My thoughts and my ideas are on MY website, www.TheTruthAboutTithing.com
Interesting stuff. Any particular point? Or just trying to share?
While I find much of the information on this site to be intriguing and thought provoking, I have repeatedly read an idea on the site that I believe to be incorrect. The following quote from that site is representative of the idea:
"When the Lord claimed that what is holy unto Him as a tithe, or declared what should be offered as the firstfruit to the priest, He did not include money."
The idea is that the tithe was exclusively non-monetary. However, consider the following verses:
Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; [or] if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn [it] into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Granted, my post here does not engage the idea of tithing being a requirement for the church, nor am I here debating the purpose of the tithe. I only intend to point out that the tithe, at least in some capacity, could be in monetary form.
New in Christ
Your quotes from Deuteronomy 14 actdually prove the point that tithes were always from food only. Although tithe-food could be changed into money in the case of the 2nd festival tithe which everybody consumed, when the person reached Jerusalem it was turned back into wine, beer, or food.
No tradesman such as carpenters (Jesus) or tentmakers (Paul) were ever required to give ten percent of their occupational profit. Defining tithes as money is simply a myth.
Russ Kelly wrote:
Okay, suppose I agree with that statement. I would assume, then, that Jesus' commendation of the widow casting in her two mites was His favorable comment on a "freewill" offering, correct? Now, I never did think she was giving a tithe, but this hardcore distinction that the tithe is confined to agricultural means is a new one on me...and I've grown up in the church.
However, do those who reject tithing ever use any starting point for giving or is it just whatever you decide to give?
Let me make it easy for you. The following texts all define and limit the tithe to food. Leviticus 27:30-34; Numbers 18:19-28; Deuteronomy 12:1-19; 14:22-29; 26:12-13; 2 Chronicles 29:35;
31:1-12; Nehemiah 10:37-38; Malachi 3:7-10; Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42.
That is far from "hardcore." I am simply using God's Word to DEFINE the word and not Webster's Dictionary.
Too many Baptists have been used as willing robots to automatically repeat the phrase "the tithe is a good place to start" without thinking that is is NOT a Biblical statement. That statement incorrectly ASSUMES that everybody STARTED with a tithe which is simoly not true.
Second Corinthians 8 and 9 give excellent new covenant principles of giving and they begin with a saved person's prompting by the Holy Spirit.
Russ Kelly wrote:
Okay. The Matthew 23:23 passage piques my interest:
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
According to the commentary about this passage on the website www.thetruthabouttithing.com,
Is this typical of the explanation from those who do not hold to tithing? If so, can the explanation be summed up as saying Jesus was, for the time being, affirming the system of the tithe, because it was still in effect, since He had not yet gone to the cross.
If I have summarized adequately, I'm curious as to where the Pharisees got the means to tithe themselves? Were they farmers, or would this tithe of theirs be the 'tithe of the tithe' (Numbers 18:26)?
Obviously, none of my questions so far offer any sort of a rebuttal, but I'm just probing the non-tithe position, at this point.
New (I wish I knew your name)
Although I think that the quotation you gave is rather sharp and crude, I fully agree that it is accurate.
Matthew 23 is contains 7 woes for their abuse of the Mosaic Law and is not New Covenant theology.
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples,
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses;
3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. NASU
Matthew 23:23 occurs from 1600-1400 years after the tithe was first defined and it still only includes FOOD. The Pharisees hypocritically demanded the counting and weighing of very small garden spices, BUT the Pharisees said nothing about including the smallest "penney."
Generally the Pharisees were neither Aaronic priests nor their Levite servants. Many were wealthy landowners who hired the general population as tenants.
Check out my website for FREE downloads on this chapter. www.shouldthechurchteachtithing.com