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Weigh Down Workshop cult alert

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 24, 2001.

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  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I want to caution you about being involved with Gwen Shamblin and the Weigh down workshop. This is not a Christian organization. As a matter of fact, Gwen is a wolf in sheep's clothing that is is along the lines of the Jehovah Witnesses. You need to know that Gwen does not belieive in the trinity or the diety of Jesus Christ. Further, she has deceptively used the WDW to infiltrate traditional main line denominations (which she refers to as apostate and the whore of Babylon) and teach them that the gospel taught within their churches is unbiblical and apostacy. Her and her husband has begaun a new church in Tennessee and are now trying to recruit WDW participants into the new church that teaches that Jesus was not God but created by God the Father, and that the trinity is a false teaching. If you don't beleive me, go to her own website at www.wdworkshop.com and click on FAQs. At the bottom of the page, you will find her teachings on the trinity and the diety of Jesus. She is shameless and heretical and I would discourage any Bible beleiving Christian from being involved in her cult in any way possible.

    Joseph
     
    #1 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 24, 2001
  2. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    You must have read my post.

    Gwen is Church of Christ.
    On her videos she is totally biblical.

    And I won't debate the issue with you.

    According to some, everyone but their church, or denomanation are a cult, and are evil. Don't know if your one of these or not, but I encounter them a lot.
     
    #2 donnA, Jun 24, 2001
  3. Ars

    Ars New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
    You must have read my post.

    Gwen is Church of Christ.
    On her videos she is totally biblical.

    And I won't debate the issue with you.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    So, you agree with her then? Your response confused me.

    Dave

    [ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: Dajuid ]
     
    #3 Ars, Jun 24, 2001
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Actually Katie,

    She is no longer Church of Christ. Her and her husband have started a new church called Remnant Fellowship. Her teaching are against scripture and are not Christian. Her methods of fleecing the flock with her "back door" methods are anti christian and downright evil.

    Joseph
     
    #4 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 24, 2001
  5. Larry

    Larry Member
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    Way to go, Jbotwinick!
    I had already seen that info (probably on one of those Expose type web pages) but it is good to see that somebody cares enough to warn others.
     
    #5 Larry, Jun 25, 2001
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    #6 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    #7 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    #8 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    #9 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    #10 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  11. Theopolitan

    Theopolitan New Member

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    J:

    I visited Shamblin's site, and read her statements about the Trinity.

    I also visited Hannegraf's site and read his hatchet job of her statements.

    You know what? Nothing Hank said (or whoever it was that wrote the article, but you get the gist) cleared anything up. He seemed just as clueless, if not more so, than Shamblin.

    Let me ask you, how does this statement, "God is one entity made up of three persons," different from saying, "God exists in three entities?"

    There's no difference.

    Not really. Not in any mortal mind. In fact, Shamblin was right on target when she called this a "strife over words."

    She does not say that Jesus was created. She says that Jesus was "begotten," and that is the testimony of Scripture. She says that straightforward. You should go back and take some remedial reading courses. Because He is begotten, He is deity. C.S. Lewis said exactly the same thing in Mere Christianity
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>One of the creeds says that Christ is the Son of God "begotten, not created"; and it adds "begotten by his Father before all worlds." Will you please get it quite clear that this has nothing to do with the fact that when Christ was born on earth as a man, that man was the son of a virgin? We are not now thinking about the Virgin Birth. We are thinking about something that happened before Nature was created at all, before time began. "Before all worlds" Christ is begotten, not created.
    . . .
    A man begets a child, but he only makes a statue. God begets Christ but He only makes men. But by saying that, I have illustrated only one point about God, namely, that what God the Father begets is God, something of the same kind as Himself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is exactly what Shamblin was saying. Simply because Shamblin may not have some of the higher levels of the understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity, does not mean that at the level she is she is wrong.

    As Lewis went on to say:
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If you are using only one dimension, you could draw only a straight line. If you are using two, you could draw a figure: say, a square. And a square is made up of four straight lines. Now a step further. If you have three dimensions, you can then build what we call a solid body, say, a cube--a thing like a dice [sic] or a lump of sugar. And cube is made up os six squares.

    Do you see the point? A world of one dimension would be a straight line. In a two-dimensional world, you still get figures but many figures make one solid body. In other words, as you advance to more real and more complicated levels, you do not leave behind you the things you found on the simpler levels: you still have them, but combined in new ways--in ways you could not imagine if you knew only the simpler levels.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Now, where is your hatchet job on Lewis?

    It is obvious you know nothing of the Trinity except what you were told. Shamblin is miles ahead of you because she knows of the Trinity that which she has obeyed.
     
    #11 Theopolitan, Jun 25, 2001
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Gwen Shamblin:

    Others are calling me a cult because Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus is the Son of God and that He is not the Father. In other words, one small portion of their teachings must parallel one small portion of my teaching…but I assure you that there are no other comparisons.
     
    #12 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Gwen Shamblin:

    ACCORDING TO THE TRINITY, JESUS AND GOD ARE THE SAME BEING. WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

    IS JESUS GOD?

    The answer: I believe that Jesus and God are two separate beings. I believe that Jesus is our Lord (referenced hundreds of times) and our God (referenced approximately three times), but I believe that the God of Jesus is God the Father. Jesus is not God the Father.

    My statement:

    Therefore, with that logic, we must have two gods. This is polytheistic and pagan.

    [ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: JBotwinick ]
     
    #13 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Gwen Shamblin:

    The Bible clearly teaches that when Jesus’ will did not match God’s
     
    #14 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Gwen Shamblin:

    People who hold rigidly to the man-made Trinitarian doctrine say that the picture of God and Jesus and the Spirit is a mystery, that one is three and three is one, but there are no scripture references to back that up in the NIV.
     
    #15 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    This is from the SBC's statement about Gwen Shamblin:

    L.L. "Don" Veinot Jr., president of the apologetics ministry Midwest Christian Outreach in Lombard, Illinois, received more than two dozen inquiries about Shamblin from Weigh Down workers and coordinators after the Aug.10 e-mail. Veinot phoned Shamblin after reviewing the Web site, but he says the conversation only confirmed Shamblin's stance that the Trinity is unbiblical.

    "When I asked about her statement that the Father and Son are two separate beings, her reply was 'absolutely,'" Veinot says. "Her views are closer to that of Jehovah's Witnesses than anything resembling the historic biblical faith."

    Veinot believes Shamblin's religious beliefs avoided scrutiny for so long because of the subject matter she teaches. "Weight loss is not one of the high priorities in apologetics or counter-cult work," he says.

    "The material on the Web site makes a distinction between the Father and Son that is heretical," Veinot says. "She is clearly anti-Trinitarian."

    In the same Aug. 10 e-mail — which has since been deleted from the Web site — Shamblin tells followers that Christians grieve Jesus if they adhere to doctrines not found in Scripture. "If God wanted us to refer to Himself, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit as the 'trinity,' He would not have left this word completely out of the Bible."
     
    #16 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    More from the SBC:

    Shamblin no longer is in a Church of Christ congregation, however. She says her husband, David, who started a new church in the Nashville area last year with another couple, is now her pastor. She says he is the "leading shepherd" of Remnant Fellowship, which has about eighty members, many of them Weigh Down employees.

    In a related development, Weigh Down faces questions about its handling of employees in connection with Shamblin's theological views and membership at Remnant Fellowship.

    Carney Hawkins, a resident of the Nashville area, says she worked for Shamblin and the Weigh Down Workshop for four years. Her first three years at Weigh Down were spent coordinating classes. At the time of her dismissal, she was director of counseling and supervisor over outreach.

    Carney said she was fired because of theological differences. "Gwen and I had an ongoing discussion for several months trying to nail down what she believed and what she was saying," Carney said. "To the end, I knew that I couldn't keep my job. She told me I couldn't embrace the message of grace and then she fired me.

    "The problem I had is that I came to her in love with questions about what she was teaching," Carney said. "It was very difficult for me. We had been close friends. Those people were my family."

    Carney said she wanted to talk to the rest of the staff before leaving Weigh Down, but Shamblin gave orders for no one to associate with Carney.

    "Anyone who leaves is labeled a devil," Carney said. "She orders them not to speak or fellowship with those who leave the ministry. There is a spirit of fear."

    Carney said the atmosphere at Weigh Down is extremely difficult: "It's very exclusive. There is a lot of fear and there is a lot of redefining of scriptural terms."

    At least forty employees have been either fired or resigned since Jan. 1, according to an anonymous source inside Weigh Down. Carney said employees are urged to leave their churches and join the Remnant Fellowship. "The office is under a lot of pressure to be a part of that church," she said. "And some people have been fired for not joining."
     
    #17 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 25, 2001
  18. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    No I do not agree with her ideas of the trinity.
    I was unaware she was no longer Chhurch of Christ.
    I have been doing some research on her. And will continue to look into it.
    Her basic weith loss program is a closer relationship with God, seeking Him instead of food to fill heart hunger instead of eating when there is no real hunger. Learning to eat what is a proper anount of food, instead of overeating almost everytime you eat.
    I was taughtt at a young age to over eat. I was an over weight child, and now adult. She is right on one thing, conventional diets do not work, besause it is not real stomach hunger the over eater seeks to fill.

    I am collecting some information, and am going to talk to a few people about this. Our church is not sponsering this program, but we are meeting at and watching the videos at church. I think our pastor was not given all the information he might have needed to decide for this group to meet at the church. I plan on tallking to him tomorrow, Mondays are his day off.
    I'll try to get back in here to tell what happens.
     
    #18 donnA, Jun 25, 2001
  19. Theopolitan

    Theopolitan New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>C.S. Lewis: If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake. If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all these religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth. . . . But, of course, being a Christian does mean thinking that where Christianity differs from other religions, Christianity is right and they are wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Here is what you quoted from Shamblin:
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Others are calling me a cult because Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus is the Son of God and that He is not the Father. In other words, one small portion of their teachings must parallel one small portion of my teaching…but I assure you that there are no other comparisons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Again, the exact same thing that C.S. Lewis postulated. Lewis went on to say that if I say I believe in God, then I line right up "with the ancient Greeks and Romans, modern savages, Stoics, Plantonists, Hindus, Mohammedans, etc.," in that fact alone. But that doesn't make me one of them.

    If JW's say Jesus is not the Father, where does that contradict any teaching of the Scripture? On an elementary level it is eminently true.

    All your posts from figures of SBC do not prove anything except that they are not above the bestial tactics of the secular press to repeat heresay and innuendo from disgruntled former employees.

    And as it is evident that J cannot rise above the profane use of ad hominem attacks, he would make a fine minister in a SBC "church."
     
    #19 Theopolitan, Jun 25, 2001
  20. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I just read through this thread and did not see anyone calling the Weigh Down folks "Jehovah's Witnesses". They simply pointed out the cult-like theology of the leaders.

    This is an observable fact, without having to classify their belief with any existing cult or sect. They teach wrong doctrine and believers should be aware of that one salient fact. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I and my Father are one.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If someone does not teach this they cease being an "orthodox christian" and become a cult or sect within christianity.
     
    #20 Dr. Bob, Jun 25, 2001
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