Weighing God's glory in doctrine

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by whetstone, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. whetstone

    whetstone
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    It has been said that a doctrine that is the most glorifying to God is the correct doctrine.

    To say that the Bible is sufficient for truth and doesn't need revision by papal decrees is more glorifying to God than the Catholic position.

    To say that salvation can not come by our good works but by Christ's sacrifice alone gives all glory to God.

    To say that Christ is God is to give glory to God.

    To believe that man is unwilling and unable to come to God is more glorifying to God than to believe man is capable.

    To believe that Christ chose his bride out of the good pleasure of his will rather than by the brides goodness is glorifying to God.

    To believe that Christ won't lose any of those he came to save is more glorifying to God.

    To believe that God is fully able to convince men of their own sinfullness and bring them to desire salvation brings glory to God.

    To believe that God can keep those vile sinners that He has saved is more glorifying to God.

    To accept the doctrines of grace is to accept a position that gives all glory to God in all matters of salvation. To reject them is to accept a lower position that gives less (or little) glory to God.

    Some might say 'My position that Christ died for all men of all time gives God more glory' but I tell you that it doesn't: if Christ knew all things and failed to save some of those he died for, he does NOT get glorified.

    Do you hold your position because you seek to glorify God? Or because you were brainwashed into believing it? Only giving God 100% of the credit gives Him 100% of the glory. Taking any credit at all (by saying the choice was up to you) is to take all 100% of that away from God.
     
  2. OSAS

    OSAS
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    Ya know. No one has ever asked me that question before.

    Calvinism was drilled into me as a child, and there is no way in the world I will ever let go of it because of my fear that I might make a mistake by turning my back on the teachings that drove, and have driven my daily life since early childhood in Sunday School.

    I am surprised that I actually admitted that here on BB.com
     
  3. whatever

    whatever
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    Ya know. No one has ever asked me that question before.

    Calvinism was drilled into me as a child, and there is no way in the world I will ever let go of it because of my fear that I might make a mistake by turning my back on the teachings that drove, and have driven my daily life since early childhood in Sunday School.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Really? I came from an opposite background - not totally Arminian, but much closer to it than to Calvinism. For me, the most difficult part of accepting Calvinism was the thought of leaving behind all that I had been taught as a child. There are worse things that you could do, though, like to keep 'believing' something that you don't really believe.

    I am too. No telling what all you will see around here.
     
  4. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
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    My testimony is like that of whatever. I was not totally Arminian, but much closer to it than Calvinism. When I began to consider certain passages that were troubling to me because they did not match up to what I had been taught, I began to reform my postion.

    As I have accepted the doctrines of grace more and more, I have increased my view of His glory. In fact, I have found myself being consumed by the idea of glorifying Him in all I do. My life's driving purpose and passion is doxological. This is somthing that I did not posses when I was more Arminian in my view.
     
  5. whetstone

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    i challenge you then to reconsider your position. don't accept calvinism because you were taught it as a child (this is a Calvinist telling you this!). Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. if you have never proven the doctrines of grace, set out to DISprove them. that's what i did at the beginning. needless to say God proved ME wrong! lol.
     
  6. Wes Outwest

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    You know, Whetstone, It is more glorifying to God for man to choose to believe in Him, than for him to make man to believe in him.

    What glory can there be in the dictatorship mentality? The world hates dictators!

    Why do you think God would be glorified by "forcing" through imposed regeneration, man's faith in Him?

    My father God has set the table provided the feast and has invited those who will to come and partake of it! He has not gone out on the byways and forced people to come!

    Your line of thinking is convoluted and incoherent with reality.
     
  7. whetstone

    whetstone
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    I agree. God doesn't force man to believe in Him. For once we are in agreement. To boot- i don't think you will find a Calvinist on this board who believes God forces anyone to believe in Him. Glad we can finally shake hands in one area.

    Enabling and forcing are two different things. that's the key thing to remember. Christ didn't 'force' Lazarus to come back to life against his will. He enabled him to live. I guaruntee that Lazarus wasn't ungrateful at all for being given life when he could not get it himself. I am not ungrateful in the least for being enabled and made willing to accept the gospel. I couldn't have had it otherwise.
     
  8. Wes Outwest

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    You ARE saying that God doesn't enable all mankind to believe? Prove that to be true!

    Excuse me? I think you will discover that Lazarus was CALLED BACK to life, not merely enabled to live again!

    Granted, once that Lazarus was restored to life, his mental thoughts and emotions were those of gladness and joy, exceeded perhaps only by Jesus' and his sister's joy. However I do not accept that Lazarus even wanted to be restored to physical life. He was a good friend to Jesus, much loved even, so it is right to conclude that He left this life the first time firmly in the grasp of personal salvation. Jesus would not have been friends and loved him as he did if he did not have a "right spirit". So Yes, Lazarus was "forced" to return among the living, most likely without his willingness. He certainly could not have done it alone.
     
  9. OSAS

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    I have already searched and read over and over again, and researched, and gone over it and my beliefs more times than I will ever know, not counting my education. I know what I know, and I am perfectly happy. My point was that I will never allow myself to abandon my beliefs, because of the trust I have placed all my life in my pastors, teachers, and God Himself leading them. I know them by their fruits, and they are mighty fine trees that have given much.
     
  10. whetstone

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    glad to hear osas [​IMG]
     
  11. whetstone

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    please word this differently. i don't understand what you are asking.
     
  12. Wes Outwest

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    OK!

    You ARE saying that God doesn't enable all mankind to believe!

    Prove that to be true!
     

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