Weightlessness

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by NetChaplain, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Wishing all a joyous Thanksgiving and Holidays! What did the Turkey say when it was angry with the computer? Google, Google, Google!!! God Be Blessed!



    For the one who is brought to God by the Gospel, and planted in the liberty wherein Christ makes free before the Father, it is no more a question of the flesh, but of the Holy Spirit who is given to him. And who will venture to say that the indwelling Spirit of God fails to supply enablement to him who submits to the righteousness of God in Christ?

    Hence the point is not at all whether we have intrinsic power, but whether He is not now abiding in us as “a Spirit of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” Undoubtedly such is the assurance of God’s Word to His children; and thus Galatians 5 is in contrast with Romans 7.

    In that chapter of Romans we have a man converted indeed, but without liberty, and consequently powerless. He sees the right, feels the good, desires the holy, but never accomplishes. The reason is that he has not yet come to own by faith that he has no strength any more than righteousness, and that Christ is all and in all. He is afresh making efforts to improve, yet still in bondage and misery.

    He is occupied with himself. He feels what he ought to do, but he does it not, and thus is increasingly wretched. Sense of duty is not power. What gives enablement is the heart surrendering itself in everything, and thus set a liberty in Christ. I am perfectly delivered, and the measure of my deliverance is the Lord Jesus, and Him raised from among the dead. This is Christianity. And when the believer thankfully accepts from the Father this blessed liberty, the Spirit acts in him as the Spirit of peace and power; so that if there is the flesh lusting against the Spirit, the Spirit resists it (Gal 5:17—NC), in order that he should not do the things that he would.

    Accordingly, Paul draws from this a most weighty argument against bringing in the law as the rule of life for the believer. You do not need it, because the Holy Spirit thus working strengthens you unto love. Liberty comes first; power and love afterwards. And how true all this is! Make a child thoroughly happy, and you will soon see that its duty becomes comparatively light and a joy. But when one is miserable, does not every duty, even where it may be as light as a feather, feel as if it were an iron chain on you?

    It is no wander that one who is thus tied and bound feels restive under it. Far otherwise is the Father’s way with us. He makes one first thoroughly in the sense of His grace and liberty Christ has won for him, and then the Holy Spirit becomes an indwelling spring of power, though His power is put forth in us only as we have the glorified Lord Jesus Christ as our blessed Object.

    Thus, if we walk in the Spirit, we shall not fulfill the desires of the flesh. Such is the secret of true power. The consequence is, “If ye are led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” And more than this, if we are manifesting the fruit of the Spirit, we can easily say, “Against such there is no law.” Let other talk as they will of the law, no law can censure the real fruit of the Spirit, or those in whom they are manifest.

    -Wm Kelly
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    What IS sin according to the NT Word of God?

    1John 3:4
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    How does the saint view that Law according to Paul?

    "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19
    "do we then make void the Law of God? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31

    "
    8 For finding fault with them, He says,“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
    When I will effect a new covenant
    With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
    ...
    10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
    After those days, says the Lord:
    I will put My laws into their minds,
    And I will write them on their hearts.
    And I will be their God,
    And they shall be My people.

    How does this Law of God relate to Love for God and Love for one another?

    1 John 5:1-4

    Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

    Does not Grace - free us from the issue of sin and rebellion against God's law so that we need not worry about it ? Can we marry rebellion and Grace together?

    Romans 6
    7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
    12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

    John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
    Ex 20:7 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"

    Rev 14:12 the 'Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

    Rom 2:13-16 "It is NOT the hearers of the law that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE justiFIED ... on the day when according to my Gospel God will Judge"

    Matt 7 "Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the will of My Father"

    What about the one who "says" that the Commandments of God are impossible to keep -- who are they?

    Romans 8
    the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
     
  3. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    HI Brother - Yes! Sin's guilt is never again an issue with the believer, but sin's rule can be, to the unlearned believer who is not knowledgeable concerning the presence of the "old man" (sinful nature) and its devices.

    The lost need saved and the saved need deliverance--from the opposition of the Adamic nature, which the Spirit constantly opposes (Gal 5:17).
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Agreed. Who is freed from sin - if not the saints?

    Romans 6
    7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
    12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
    14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
    16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?


    And yet as we see in the text above - even the saints have to be reminded of the battle they are in.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Amen! The “warfare” (2 Cor 10:4) or “wrestling” (Eph 6:12) of the believer no longer concerns a life of being ruled by sin—“God forbid” (Rom 6:15), for this identifies the unbeliever and results in "sin unto death" (v 16). The unbeliever is carnally ruled and dominated, and "to be carnally minded is death" (Rom 8:6).

    Those who are "born again" will always retain a degree of carnality due to the indwelling Adamic nature (old man), and we do well to realize the difference between being "carnal" (still requiring much growth in "being conformed" to Christ - Rom 8:29; 1 Cor 3:1) and being "carnal minded."

    It is not to wonder any more whether or not the Christian can be “ruled” or “dominated” by sin (Rom 6:12, 14), for this God guards His own against (John 10:29; Gal 5:17; Phl 2:13; 2 Tim 1:12; Jude 1:24). Those who are unsaved are identified by the continued ruler-ship of the sin nature (old man), and instead of being “captive to the law of sin” (Rom 7:23), they are cooperative participants, who go on sinning "willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth” (Heb 10:26). As you know, it is not the knowledge of the truth which evinces salvation, but the application of the truth (by the Spirit of-course) after knowing it.

    For the believer it now concerns that of oppression from sin which results from, not ignorance of God’s Word but that of its accurate comprehension. This leaves one much in the weakness of faith in Christ concerning the sufficiency of His efficacy, which retains the needless weights (Heb 12:1).
     
    #5 NetChaplain, Nov 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2013
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Romans 6 is not a list of warnings and instructions "to God" reminding God of what He must do to retain those who are "Under grace and not under law" -- I think we all see that.

    Rather this is instruction "TO" the saints written TO the saints about what they must do as those who are under grace and not under law.

    Romans 6
    7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
    8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
    9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
    10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
    11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
    12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
    13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
    14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
    16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

    There is not a single instruction or reminder here "to God".

    All the motivation, all the argument, all the action commanded in the text is "to" the saints.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Hi Bob - I guess I rambled on too much in my last post because I cannot determine how your last post concerns mine. Maybe if you could address some specific points of what you're trying to share will help me. Thanks for the fellowship regardless!

    Bob Hall (NC)
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    I am asking what the implications of the text in Romans 6 has for the saints today. Given that this is instruction "to the saints" -- to those who are "not under law but under grace"
     
  9. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Thanks Brother.
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    So if we take the various commands to us - as saved saints - those who are not under law but under grace - as found in the chapter - what are we to do with each of them?

    Romans 6

    The first command in that list is -
    11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.


    The second is -
    12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,

    The third is -
    13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness;

    The fourth:
    but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

    Here is an observation by Paul -
    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
    16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
     

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