We're having a debate about Baptist beliefs!

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Abiyah, Apr 10, 2004.

  1. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    For Baptists Only PLEASE!!!!!

    My husband and I learn through debate: we debate religious issues, trying to learn the answers from the Bible, and drawing conclusions -- sometimes the same conclusions, sometimes not. However, this time, we are debating regarding the Baptist churches themselves! I say that for the majority, Baptist believe one way; he says they believe another. We already know what the teachers of my place of worship say. but we have no way of learning the answers for other Baptists, other than to ask.

    I recognize that "Baptist" encompasses many varying beliefs, some of which are adamently opposed, but I am looking for the answers each of you would give. If you know the answers particular Baptist branches would also give, please state those answers and give the particular Baptist label to those answers.

    Here we go:


    You, a Baptist, are in a major hurry; you are late. You must get home to fix dinner.

    1A:
    Sin?
    Error in judgment without real responsibility?

    1B:
    Sin?
    Error in judgment without real responsibility?

    1C:
    Sin?
    Error in judgment without real responsibility?

    General questions:

    2:
    True or false?

    3:
    True or false?

    4:
    True or false?

    5:
    True or false?
     
  2. DHK

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    You, a Baptist, are in a major hurry; you are late. You must get home to fix dinner.

    1A:
    It is sin. You are responsible for your actions. No excuses.

    1B:
    It is still sin, and you are still responsible for your actions. You could have stopped.

    1C:
    Sin. The Bible says sin is a transgression of the law (whether or not no one is looking).

    General questions:
    2:
    True or false?
    False--"only" for those sins..." Am I omitting some responsibility here?

    3:
    True or false?
    True

    4:
    True or false?
    True.

    5:
    True or false?

    Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    The answer is FALSE.
    DHK (IFB)
     
  3. Abiyah

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    Thank you, DHK!

    Now, he has brought up another idea. He asks if believers ever have any eternal consequences for sins they have committed. I said no, that I have daily consequences. However, the Bible says that we will all be judged. I am judged daily, but I believe in a final judgment for all as well. When I said that sometimes the consequences of my sins turn out to be blessings, because I learn from those consequences, he said that I am confusing judgment, grace, and justice. Am I, in your opinions, confusing them?
     
  4. Don

    Don
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    I believe what he was asking you was if you thought anyone would spend eternity in hell.

    In other words, he's trying to ask you if you believe you're a sinner, and whether you understand that the price of sin is eternal separation from God.
     
  5. Abiyah

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    Hi, Don. Good thought, but this is not what he intended, since he already knows that I believe that believers do sin but that if they truly are believers, born of our God, they will spend eternity with Him.

    He has been around Baptists far less than I have, and most of what he knows about them are things he learned from the holiness-Arminian church to which we once belonged. Obviously, they were quite negatively biased.
     
  6. Paul of Eugene

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    I'll certainly share my point of view . . . why not?

    You, a Baptist, are in a major hurry; you are late. You must get home to fix dinner.

    1A:
    You should not drive through red lights. If you are in a state of mind wherein you don't notice them, you shouldn't be driving. If you didn't know you were in that state of mind, the fact that you did so should give you pause and you should perhaps refocus, or whatever it takes, including pull over and stop driving.

    Yes, its a sin . . .

    1B:
    yes, its a sin . . .

    Its even a sin of sinning against the light!

    1C:
    Still a sin.

    True or false?

    Technically true, but - one should be aware that one is capable of cause harm unknowingly and therefore one of the things you might neglect would be reasonable efforts to be aware of the impact of your actions.

    3:
    If a man causes harm but didn't know he was causing harm he is innocent of sin, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be stopped, or that he shouldn't apologize later . . .

    4:
    True.

    5:
    What? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid! If I didn't repent - that is, truly seek to turn away from my sin - God would not have saved me. I'm not saying I would have the strength to avoid sin on my own, but the intention needed to be there.
     
  7. Abiyah

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    Thank you, Paul! I appreciate your answers. So far, he is amazed! :)
     
  8. Don

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    My mistake, Abiyah; for some reason, I got it in my head that you were talking about a co-worker. Re-reading your initial post, I understand that you're talking about your husband.

    From the Bible, we find that all of us will be tried by fire (1 Corinthians 3:13). Will some of us come up more wanting than others? Yes. Will the saved still attain Heaven? Yes.

    As I heard someone once say, if I only get a basement apartment in Heaven, it's still better than the penthouse in hell.
     
  9. Abiyah

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    Thank you, Don. He is having a real rough time with this. He stood in the door of my office last night as we discussed this, and I could see how he is hurting.
     
  10. Daisy

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    If you want answers only from Baptists, why not post in one the Baptists Only Section? Seems like a bit of a tease to me. :(

    Obviously, I'm not a Baptist, but...

    Your choices are 1) sin and 2) error of judgement with no responsibility. Is it possible to have an error of judgement with responsibility?
     
  11. Abiyah

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    Hi, Daisy. Because while my synagogue is certainly Baptist, many do not accept me as Baptist, and I am thoroughly confused as to whether or not I should post in Baptist-only areas. Sometimes, I forget and post on Baptist-only areas, and sometimes, I remember and avoid them. My computer screen does not always show me, before I start answering, that it is Baptist-only. Personally, I think I should be able to post there, but the board is also not the one who removed me: I did it myself, after some people, who are now gone, got a little bent out of shape. :)

    In my heart, I am Messianic Baptist. My synagogue is Baptistic in teaching and belief, and the teachers are Baptist-educated as well as from Baptist pastor's homes. Outside of my synagogue, I have had the best teaching and treatment from Baptists and I am very much a part of Baptists. My intention was certainly not to tease -- such a thing never crossed my mind.

    My thoughts regarding 1A, 1B, and 1C are that they are all sin. For 2, 3, 4, I would reply true. For 5, false. My husband had thought that Baptists, in general, would have given the exact opposite of my answers in all cases.

    With regard to errors of judgment having no resulting responsibility, I strongly disagree: we are responsible for all of our acts.
     
  12. Paul of Eugene

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    As for eternal consequences of our sins, we will need to recognize that the plan of God to achieve our salvation is an alternate plan to the one we would have been in if we had never sinned. We may never get to know what that plan would have gained us, it would surely have been just as glorious; we are now in for an alternate glorious plane.
     
  13. Paul of Eugene

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    PLAN! I mean an alternate glorious PLAN!
    But if God takes us to heaven in a plane I'm shure it will be a glorious one . .
     
  14. BobRyan

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    So God DID create mankind sinless perfect and holy according to Genesis 1-2:4 (The "account" that the Creator gives).

    hmm. Imagine that!

    And in that perfect, peaceful, sinless, deathless environment man chooses to "fall into sin". And for that All of this creations "suffers and groans" under "decay and death" waiting for the release that comes at the bodily redemption of the saints into Glory.

    Imagine if we had STAYED in that perfect, sinless, holy, happy, deathless (cave fearing extermination, disease, extinction, and the law of tooth-and claw survival of the fittest) --- oops I mean - holy, perfect, happy paradise where all was perfectly "created" to promote life and health and happiness. What a joy would be ours today - instead of this 6,000 years of death, extinction, disease, decay, starvation and suffering.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. Paul of Eugene

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    BR lets make that kind of points in our own threads. Abiyah needs our support on her issues here.

    Abiyah, BR, and all the rest, I'm taking time off from work to be with my Dad - who is in Hospice Care at this time. He is a Christian and we are not concerned in that way, Mom and the rest of us are bearing up fine, just be in prayer for the family, that's all, that God's will be done. You can see pictures of my Dad celebrating his 90th Birthday last year at my website, www.epud.net/~richmond
     
  16. Abiyah

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    For those following this thread, please pray for him. He's having a hard time.

    I have noted that when people leave holiness-Arminianism, the realization of just how sinful they really were, while proclaiming such deep and all-encompassing holiness, is devastating. The experience of facing their actual decadence is profound and heart-breaking, but necessary. Since I had already gone through this, I told him that yes, it hurts, but in the end, there is such joy when we realize that His righteousness is enough.

    He is going through some major life-, mind-, and heart-clean-up that could not possibly do anything but make him better than he was, and we have had a lot of heart-to-heart talks as well as biblical discussions. The Lord is working here!

    Thank you, all of you, for your answers, prayers, and concern. You have proven to him that Baptists are what I told him.
     

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