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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Aug 19, 2011.
or were they freely distributed among the local body, as He , the HS, saw fit?
Some, In Fact, Many May Disagree...
....However, I believe the gifts, and the signs that are supposed to accompany those gifts, are just as much for today, as they were back in the day of the Apostles and Disciples.
Of course, to believe in the gifts and accompanying signs, one must be able to go out on a proverbial limb of faith! Without that kind of extended faith, most believers will never see this in their life time!
I've been a witness to several very special signs in my life time. However, I do not go around seeking signs and wonders, and in no way to I attach my faith and salvation to having seen those signs. I am saved by faith and the shed blood of Jesus, who died for my sins. And if nothing spectacular had ever happened, or happens again in my life on earth, I am still going to heaven when I draw my last breath!
We are not told to go about seeking signs and wonders. However, we are told to go into the world and share the Gospel message that brought us to Him, and turned us into a follower of Christ (a Christian).
Does that make these folks (who have never seen signs and wonders) any less a believer than those who believe in the gifts and accompanying signs?
The answer is a resounding "No!" And anyone who tries to say, or teach differently is wrong and will be judged accordingly.
Our salvation is not dependent upon the gifts or the accompanying signs. As I've said for many years now, those gifts and signs are Holy Ghost anointed perks!
Thanks for this post, and wording of the question. I hope it receives a fair and impartial, yet nonjudgmental response from those on this forum.
I have to laugh somewhat and weep somewhat. Deceiving others is one thing, but when someone deceives themself there is no help. I suppose it works well in politics but in Christianity it is destructive.
For anyone to claim that the gifts are still alive and well I challenge them to come to the local hospital and heal the sick, or raise the dead.
And as far a tongues go (gibberish) what we are seeing today is a false gift and not of the Lord. God did not give prayer languages nor did He give babbling as a sign. Babbling IS a sign however.
Good post, Pastor Paul.
"those gifts and signs are Holy Ghost anointed perks"
This is the same sinfull pride that the Corinthians held and brought their condemnation. The gifts were never "perks." How absolutely prideful it is to see them as such.
They were freely distributed among the local body, as He , the HS, saw fit.
I'm not Pastor Paul, but I hope he meant that they are "perks" for the edification of the Body, not "perks" for personal glorification. I personally would not have used that particular word, but if that's what he meant I cannot disagree.
All Gifts (Perks) are for....
....the full and complete edification of the body as a whole. To glorify oneself, lift oneself up, etc., with the gifts of the Spirit is a sin in itself, and those who profess this, will be harshly judged.
I consider the gifts to be blessings, moments of supernatural strength, granted, for the moment, or sometimes a bit longer, in order to accomplish a miraculous fete for the Kingdom.
The works of the disciples and apostles were not common place, every-day occurrences. They came about in a sporadic form, and almost always used to grab the attention of the crowds in order to lift up and build the faith of those involved and observing, and draw others unto Christ!
I was a guest preacher in one church where a man who was possessed with a demon(s) was attending the service. After I spoke and opened the alters, he came forward, and no one knew what to do with him. His anger, and the heavy smell of beer was all about him, and all I could do was pray for wisdom, guidance and strength to use this situation to lift up God, and allow His will to be done, whatever that will was.
I didn't go into that service seeking to cast out a demon. I for sure didn't accept the opportunity to speak that night in order to demonstrate my gifts, or His gifts. I simply went to share my testimony, and sing a few songs that I had written.
I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and I was willing to go out on the proverbial limb of faith and trust God, when I simply prayed (aloud) rebuking Satan and his minions and their authority of this man, and I prayerfully proclaimed that "In Jesus Name, he was to be loosed and set free!"
He seemed to be more relaxed, and his angry demeanor was lifted. As for anything else, I wasn't sure, just hopeful that God would be true to His word.
Weeks later, the pastor contacted me, to tell me of the wondrous change in this man's demeanor, character, and outward appearance. In fact, he became saved the next Sunday morning, underwent water baptism that night, and was always the first one there when the doors opened, and the last one to leave at night as he took over the job of setting up chairs and take them down, and cleaning the church.
I have never again come across this kind of situation, and prayerfully hope I don't. It was uncomfortable, and I was quite scared of the anger within this man, and what he could do, physically to me and those who prayed with him that night, should he lose his temper and go off on me, or us.
It never ceases to amaze me how God gives gifts and subsequent signs, for the moment, and that is good enough for me. I am not a seeker of signs and wonders, just the right words to lead others to Jesus in order to help them get saved like me. If a gift does manifests itself, it is always for the lifting up of Jesus, and the edification of His people, and not the glorification of me or my abilities as a pastor.
No one has ever called (or accused) me an exorcist, or demon slayer. And if they did, I'd be the first to put them straight..
In a side note to FAL...It is not the responsible thing to go down to the local morgue and raise those who just died. It is not my calling to go to the hospital and heal the sick.
In fact, I spent 10 days in the hospital in mid 2009, and I was powerless to raise myself from the hospital bed and walk out healed. I did it the old-fashioned way. The doctor and nurses and medicine were used of the Lord to heal that round of illness. By the way, while I was there, at least six people died in the ward I was in (ICU). Again, I did not feel led to get out of my sick bed and heal those suffering, like me, or raise the newly passed!
That would be kin to seeking signs and wonders, and that is Scripturally forbidden!
Maybe you need to read my book: Thorn Daze-The painful truth about prosperity teaching! and you'd better understand exactly where I stand when it comes to WOF, signs and wonders, and healing.
I am no different than any of you. So, like me, when the opening presents itself, and you feel the Lord nudge you to step out in faith, seize the moment, or, He'll choose another to speak out and act in His name! :wavey:
Have you ever been in a meeting where you feel the urge to share something? However, you pass on that urge, and lo and behold, someone else in the congregation or crowd, stands and shares something similar to what you felt urged to share! That is the gentle nudging of the Holy Ghost, and if you ignore Him, He will settle in on another in order to get His word heard! :thumbsup:
Pastor Paul :type: