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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jedi Knight, Dec 27, 2014.
Do you believe that Saints of Old Testament were born again the spirit of God?
Are you absolutely sure? Why say ye?
I am 100% positive
Born again is an objective reality. Prophesied in OT prophets - new heart, new spirit, etc. Quoted in the book of Hebrews "In those days..." and is called the New Covenant
These quotations found in Hebrews 9-10 are centered around expounded thoughts on the Day of Atonement, and a contrast between the blood of bulls and goats versus the blood of Christ.
There are very plain statements in these contrasts, that the blood of bulls and goats could never remove sins, could never perfect the comer, etc. The obvious implication is that the blood of Jesus does, in fact, remove sins.
Also, very plain statements in Hebrews 9-10 about the blood of Jesus removing sins, and forever perfecting the ones who are sanctified
And it is plainly stated that the New Covenant could not begin without a death, the one Jesus spoke about His body and blood.
There is a whole lot more to this issue, I could probably write a whole book on it
Me too but I totally disagree with you......man in the flesh cannot please God for starters. I believe they were and Jesus was reiterating that fact to Nick @ Night "Are you a teacher of Israel and don't know these things?"
1 Peter 1:11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. Notice where the Spirit dwelt in the OT Saints.....IN THEM. More clarity? Ok NT saint are the same....Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;
can't get to the bottom of the issue until the million dollar question is answered - what is "born again" ?
How do you define it? How does scripture define it? What is the substance of it? Objectively, what happens to a person during this born again experience? What does new creation mean, in objective terms? What does it mean that we become the righteousness of God?
If you think "born again" happened in the Old Testament, then you don't understand what it is -the substance of the new birth - from a scriptural viewpoint. And understanding what it actually is, also answers why Nicodemus should have known what it is. It was prophesied
Read 2Cor 3, where Paul contrasts the ministry of death with the ministry of the Spirit.
The washing of regeneration, remission of sins, "kaphar" as it relates to the Day of Atonement, there is a whole lot to this issue.
But let's start with a definition? What is "born again?
Not how does it happen, or what does it look like, or any kind of subjective notions. Very objectively, what is it?
what is "born again" ?
That which is born of flesh is flesh....that which is born of spirit is spirit. So were the OT saint indwelt by the spirit of God too?
What does this have to do with "born again" ??
Indwelling is not the definition of born again
Two separate issues there.
However, along the lines of indwelling in the OT, there was at least a partial indwelling - at least prophets. More than likely not a permanent indwelling, for David prayed "Do not take your Holy Spirit from me" (Psalm 51:11)
Where's the definition found in that passage?
It is.....You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives IN YOU. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9
The Lord explained it straight up to Nick......you too?
Then your wrong scripturally.....that's basic stuff.
no, you're wrong. I gave plenty of scriptural support for properly understanding "born again"
You will not find any scriptural support for the notion that indwelling is synonymous with born again.
They happen at the same time, but they are not the same thing. But it's not something the typical Protestant understands. Not sure if you're a Protestant, but if you are, you won't get it. I know that much
You did not.....you cannot explain basic stuff.
And like I said, Until you properly understand what it is, there's no use in trying to figure out if it happened in the Old Testament
F- :type: Seriously.....where do you think the spirit dwells?
I'd rather discuss "born again" since that's the thread topic. Totally a different issue from indwelling
If you wana be unchallenged....I suppose so.