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Were there that many

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Rev. Joshua, Oct 7, 2001.

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  1. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    DHK,

    I'm not sure that I would argue that "separation" is a baptist distinctive, since it is practiced by other Christian groups.

    My point to Tuor is that making references to "orthodoxy" is dangerous for a baptist since baptists are united by polity and not theology.

    Joshua
     
    #21 Rev. Joshua, Oct 17, 2001
  2. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    pol·i·ty (pl-t)
    n. pl. pol·i·ties
    The form of government of a nation, state, church, or organization.

    An organized society, such as a nation, having a specific form of government: “His alien philosophy found no roots in the American polity” (New York Times).

    So what you are saying is that Baptists are only Baptists because of the fact that each individual congregation is autonomus?

    So, you could make the argument that a group of Satanists are actually Baptists because their local coven is autonomous?

    [ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Tuor ]
     
    #22 Eladar, Oct 17, 2001
  3. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rev. Joshua Villines:


    I'm surprised, if everyone thinks I'm such a heretic, that so few people have read my sermons;

    Joshua    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm suprised that you would think that many of us give a flying rip about your sermons.
     
    #23 Pennsylvania Jim, Oct 17, 2001
  4. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Tuor,

    Baptists are Christians who believe in (per Buddy Shurden's Four Fragile Freedoms:

    - Separation of Church and State
    - Local Church Autonomy
    - Priesthood of the Believer
    - The individual's right to interpret Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit

    Beyond those four things, Shurden has not found anything else that unites all baptists.

    Joshua
     
    #24 Rev. Joshua, Oct 18, 2001
  5. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:


    I'm suprised that you would think that many of us give a flying rip about your sermons.    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Jim,

    I originally posted the link because on another thread we got on a track about preaching that is focused on the text rather than journeying away from it. Then, when people started questioning my Christianity and/or faithfulness it was my hope that the people who read the sermons would at least see that I am a sincere and committed Christian (albeit one who disagrees with them on certain doctrinal issues).

    Joshua
     
    #25 Rev. Joshua, Oct 18, 2001
  6. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Point 4, if interpreted in a certain way, could make it very possible for a coven of Satanists to claim the mantle of Baptists.

    All they would have to do is say that the Holy Spirit leads them to believe that the Bible is of Man. Therefore what it says is not to be taken literal, but figurtive. They could claim that Satan was just misunderstood by the men who wrote about him.

    I am not saying that all who don't take the Bible literally would go this far. I am saying that the case could be made and the title of Baptist would still fit.
     
    #26 Eladar, Oct 18, 2001
  7. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Tuor,

    Note the part where I say "baptists are Christians!

    Joshua
     
    #27 Rev. Joshua, Oct 22, 2001
  8. Joey M

    Joey M New Member

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    But you my friend by definition are not a baptist, not even what the Bible considers a good christian, but rather a teacher of heresies, and I think the Bible calls them heritics or false prophets or lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, or so on and so on.

    Again, I don't mean that I hate you, I love you in Christ and pray that you will stop bringing His name to an open shame with the heresy you endorse.

    God speed.
     
    #28 Joey M, Oct 22, 2001
  9. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Amen, Joey! :(
     
    #29 John Wells, Oct 22, 2001
  10. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Joey, one thing I'm sure of is that I'm a baptist. The fact that I'm not the kind of baptist minister you'd want in your church doesn't make me any less a baptist or a minister.

    Joshua
     
    #30 Rev. Joshua, Oct 22, 2001
  11. Joey M

    Joey M New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Joey, one thing I'm sure of is that I'm a baptist. The fact that I'm not the kind of baptist minister you'd want in your church doesn't make me any less a baptist or a minister.
    Joshua

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You my be a minister, but not of the truth. My Bible teaches sin is sin, not sin is ok. I can take a wicca bible and tear off the cover and place a holy bible cover on it and call it the bible, but fact of the matter it is still just a wicca bible. Get my point.
    I do pray for you Joshua, that God will open your eyes to the truth.

    [ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: Joey M ]

    [ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: Joey M ]
     
    #31 Joey M, Oct 22, 2001
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Careful, Joey, with the personal attacks. Josh IS a Baptist minister. Period. I don't agree with his theology, but cannot disagree with his position.

    Deal with issues, folks, not individuals with whom you may disagree. Thanks!
     
    #32 Dr. Bob, Oct 23, 2001
  13. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    1 John 2:4

    He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
     
    #33 Eladar, Oct 23, 2001
  14. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Please do show where I've disobeyed a commandment of Jesus.

    Joshua
     
    #34 Rev. Joshua, Oct 23, 2001
  15. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Matthew 15:18-20

    But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

    [ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: Tuor ]
     
    #35 Eladar, Oct 23, 2001
  16. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Odd that you should pick that passage.

    1 - It's a perfect example of a mature understanding of faith verses the kind of strident legalism advocated by many here.

    2 - I've never advocated fornication.

    Joshua
     
    #36 Rev. Joshua, Oct 23, 2001
  17. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    1-Fornication is sex outside of marriage. Marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman. Therefore any homosexual sex is by definition fornication.

    2-It is not the sexual act itself that creates seperation from God, it is the rebellious heart that creates seperation.

    [ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: Tuor ]
     
    #37 Eladar, Oct 23, 2001
  18. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Fornication is an act of intimacy outside a covenant (note how often it's used as a metaphor for our relationship to God). I agree that it's not the act but the underlying motivation that causes the problem.

    I'm not advocating fornication. I'm saying that a covenant between two men or two women is as valid as one between a man and a woman.

    Joshua

    P.S. You said "a" man and "a" woman. Does that mean that Jacob was fornicating with Rachel?

    [ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: Rev. Joshua Villines ]
     
    #38 Rev. Joshua, Oct 23, 2001
  19. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    From what I understand, the reason why polygamy is no longer accepted is because of the laws of the Roman empire. It was a don't cause your neighbor to stumble thing.

    I can't find a single shred of Biblical evidence saying that polygamy is not acceptable.

    As far as same sex marriages goes, God created woman for man. For this reason a woman will leave her mother and father and join to her husband.

    To teach otherwise is herecy.
     
    #39 Eladar, Oct 23, 2001
  20. Joey M

    Joey M New Member

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    Sorry Dr. Bob, I will edit my post. But I will quote the Bible as to my feelings toward this:

    Matt. 7:21-23
    "21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

    Luke 6:46-49
    " 46And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."

    I'd not want to be anywhere near his house when it falls.


    God speed.
     
    #40 Joey M, Oct 23, 2001
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