Westcott and Hort text?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Elijah, Feb 27, 2004.

  1. Elijah

    Elijah
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    One of the most popular accusations I hear about modern Bible versions is that they are based on Westcott and Horts texts. (not saying that is either bad or good) The point of this thread is to ask the question "If most modern versions are indeed based on the work of Westcott and Hort, please let us know which ones." One article I read said that the only version based largely on the W/H text is the Jehovas Witness, NWT. Please do not answer with baseless opinion, facts only please.
     
  2. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
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    I'll say one thing for you Elijah, you sure are optimistic!! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  3. Elijah

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    I seem to have started this same thread twice at the same time (dont know how that happened).
    Anyway, I asked for facts only in the hope that some would offer something solid, not just personal opinion. Nothing wrong with opinions, we all got em, but by themselves there not worth much. Optimistic? I hope I always am. [​IMG]
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    I'll say one thing for you Elijah, you sure are optimistic!! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]You gotta be optimistic
    when you are from Oklahoma.

    Consider this line from our state song:

    When the wind comes sweeping down the PLANES [​IMG]
     
  5. Elijah

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    The Westcott and Hort question seems to go to the heart of this debate, in that it can be a real trick to get accurate info. concerning W&H, or the so called Alxandrian texts and so on. If you look at a KJVO website, you see W&H portrayed as seance holding homosexuals, whos main mission in life was to corrupt the word of GOD. If you go on a more historical(for lack of a better word) website, you can read of their profession of faith and their desire to do a good work. Accurate information seems so hard to come by, and I dont even pretend to be any kind of scholar on this subject. Hence my "optimistic" request for facts on this matter.
     
  6. Askjo

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    True! Look at ASV that was also based on the W/H text. Most modern versions omitted the doctrine of the Trinity because an Unitarian scholar/translator worked for W/H text. An Unitarian scholar did not believe in the Trinity. Therefore the JW Bible joined there. That's why modern versions deleted 1 John 5:7. The JW does not believe in the Trinity.
     
  7. HankD

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    Look for 1 John 5:7:
    For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    If it is missing, in all probability its one of the descendant translations of the W/H 1881 Greek text.

    The use of "He" in 1 Timothy 3:16 is also a litmus test for a W/H or a W/H-like version.

    KJV 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    RSV 1 Timothy 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

    ASV 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

    HankD
     
  8. BrianT

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    Neither the Majority Text, nor the Peshitta, nor the first couple editions of the TR, nor several other "good tree" Bibles contain this verse.

    Again, although the "God" reading is more prevalent in "good tree" Bibles, it is not to be found in several translations, like the Peshitta (which Ruckman even calls the word of God).

    It ain't so cut-and-dried. [​IMG]
     
  9. HankD

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    True, these are general modern tests that one can do without having to learn the centuries of exceptions.

    If a Bible has both 1 John 5:7 and 1 Timothy 3:16 as posted above without any explanation(s) then one can be assured it is NOT a W/H descendant and vice versa if it is the other way around.

    HankD
     
  10. BrianT

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    HankD,

    Often that is the case, but again, not always. I have a couple Bibles in my collection that do not follow that rule.

    Brian
     
  11. gb93433

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    1 John 5:7 wasn't present until the 16th century.
     
  12. Elijah

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    So where did it come from?
     
  13. HankD

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    The 3rd-4th century Old Itala the Latin Vulgate and the Latin Fathers some say as early as Cyprian. There are also several late Greek MSS which contain 1 John 5:7.

    http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq/holland_1jo5_7.html

    Do a WEB search on "johannine comma" and you will find an abundance of research on this verse of Scripture. This is my conviction that it is part of the Word of God.

    HankD
     
  14. robycop3

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    HankD"The use of "He" in 1 Timothy 3:16 is also a litmus test for a W/H or a W/H-like version.

    With all due respect, Hank, I don't believe it takes rocket science on the part of the reader to see that the "he" is referring to JESUS. This is a fairly old KJVO argument that holds about as much water as a sieve. But such skimpy arguments is all that the KJVOs have to try to support their myth.
     
  15. HankD

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    I know that roby. Either way it's obvious who "He" is. I was just giving Elijah a rough guide to go by when looking at a Bible in order to determine it MSS family.

    HankD
     

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