Westcott and Hort...

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by michelle, Aug 18, 2004.

  1. michelle

    michelle
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    Many christians today I fear, are sadly being drawn into doubt, confusion, disbelief, and lukewarmness because:

    Jude 1

    3. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
    4. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
    5. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
    6. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    The following is something I have understood (shown by the Lord) for some time, but the last few days have tried my best to find some links to show you all the bad fruits of Westcott and Hort, and this is only one part of the whole picture that is leading to the fulfillment of the apostacy and the Mystery Babylon as spoken of in the book of Revelation.

    The only thing I ask you all to do, is read these links that I am sharing to the fullest, and with a strong desire to know the truth, at all costs. Please try your best to disregard the labels, and look at this information with the eyes and mind of the Lord Jesus Christ. Please, I humbly request this of you. I will be willing to discuss your thoughts on this, if only you are interested in the truth, rather than fighting some man-made label. I come to you as a christian sister, who loves you all and only desires to love you with the truth and in the truth. This might take some time to read some of these links, but it will be well worth your time and effort, and for the benefit of your understanding what I am presenting. Also remember this:

    Ephesians 6

    10. Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
    11. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
    12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
    13. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
    14. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
    15. And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
    16. Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
    17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
    18. Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
    19. And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
    20. For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

    Please read in the order given for a better understanding of the information provided.

    http://www.bilderberg.org/lucis.htm

    http://www.class.uidaho.edu/mickelsen/ToC/McTaggart.htm

    http://www.fa-ir.org/ai/magna.htm

    http://www.seekgod.ca/ghostsociety.htm
    http://www.seekgod.ca/socialists.htm

    http://www.pathlights.com/onlinebooks/KJV-HB/KJV-Attack-intensifies.htm

    http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/sprtrviv.htm

    http://58.1911encyclopedia.org/W/WE/WESTCOTT_BROOKE_FOSS.htm

    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/REsocialism.htm

    http://www.infed.org/thinkers/et-owen.htm

    http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/henry_sidgewick.htm

    http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/bishop_lightfoot.htm

    http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/e_w__benson.htm

    http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/ghostly_guild.htm

    http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/metaphysical_society.htm

    http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/balfour/darwin.htm

    http://www.tribwatch.com/redshield.htm


    http://tinyurl.com/3nca8

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/sbe/index.htm
    http://gospelpedlar.com/sacredbks.html

    http://63.1911encyclopedia.org/C/CA/CAMBRIDGE_PLATONISTS.htm
    http://www.ritmanlibrary.nl/c/p/exh/cre/cre_pla_01.html
    http://www.iep.utm.edu/p/plotinus.htm
    http://www.plotinus.com
    http://www.lightparty.com/Spirituality/Hermetic.html

    http://www.historicist.com/necromancers/nwo.htm
    http://www.historicist.com/necromancers/satansapostles.htm


    http://www.nehemiahswall.org/Prophetic_Apostacy.html

    http://www.biblebelievers.com/harmon8.html

    http://www.temcat.com/wooden_nickles.htm


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle


    <edited only to shorten a link>

    [ August 18, 2004, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Are these things that we are supposed to have never seen?
     
  3. natters

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    Thank you for the links, Michelle. I will examine them in more detail over the next little while. However, I notice right off the top that several of them do not mention Westcott and Hort at all (leading me to doubt that you even read them yourself). Others simply parrot the unoriginal slander from Riplinger, Waite and Fuller that has already been exposed to be deception and false witness, ripping quotes out of context and making false assumptions. As I examine the remaining links, I suspect I will only find more of the same slanderous stench, but I will try to open minded about it.

    Instead of getting information about Westcott and Hort 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hand, via people who are obviously extremely biased against them from the start, why not go right to the source any bypass the middle-man?

    And since you expect me to read so many of your links, I ask that you only read through one in return:

    http://www.westcotthort.com/quotes.html
     
  4. Scott J

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    If your intent is to use this as a proof text for your KJVO beliefs then you must once again be rebuked for abusing scripture and putting words in God's mouth.
     
  5. Ransom

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    michelle said:

    (shown by the Lord)

    Since my sampling of michelle's links (I didn't waste my time with the whole lot) provides nothing but the same old lies concerning Westcott and Hort (closet Catholics, spiritists, blah blah blah), the above is obviously false.

    The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would never bear false witness <edited by moderator>.

    Michelle ought to be ashamed for blaming God for her dishonesty.

    [ August 18, 2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  6. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Thank you for the links, Michelle. I will examine them in more detail over the next little while. However, I notice right off the top that several of them do not mention Westcott and Hort at all (leading me to doubt that you even read them yourself). Others simply parrot the unoriginal slander from Riplinger, Waite and Fuller that has already been exposed to be deception and false witness, ripping quotes out of context and making false assumptions. As I examine the remaining links, I suspect I will only find more of the same slanderous stench, but I will try to open minded about it.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Yes, I did read them, as I explained it took me two full days of search, and some of them I had read before. The reason that many of the links do not indicate Westcott or Hort, is because they don't. These links are showing the reader the comparisons. And yes, I have read what they wrote, outside of the quotes given by the above mentioned names. What is important for many christians today to understand, is that just because someone seems or looks christian, doesn't necessarily mean that they are.

    Ezekiel 22

    25. There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
    26. Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
    27. Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
    28. And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken.
    29. The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

    Acts 20

    27. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
    28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
    29. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
    30. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
    31. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  7. natters

    natters
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    michelle said "And yes, I have read what they wrote"

    What specifically did you read?
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    ??
     
  9. michelle

    michelle
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    --------------------------------------------------
    michelle said "And yes, I have read what they wrote"

    What specifically did you read?
    --------------------------------------------------

    I read the link you gave, and all the writings of Westcott provided on that same link. I do see how some might have taken the quotes out of the origional context, to which I do not condone, nor approve of. However, I did read the full quotes given, and have not come away feeling that the initial quotes were saying something different. In fact, I have come to see quite clearly the doubt and confusion that their methods had put them into. I also have come to discern that Westcott and Hort were very good at concealing their gnostic beliefs veneered with christian terminology. Here is an example:

    --------------------------------------------------

    His nature from the record of what
    He has done, as Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier,
    a conception which as it is brought to us through
    life gains
    in fulness and clearness as our know-
    ledge
    of life is enlarged either by our individual
    experience, or by the accumulated experience of
    mankind
    .
    The Apostles' Creed, I repeat, shews God to
    us, the One God, as our Creator, Redeemer, Sanc-
    tifier, and we acknowledge under each relation
    what He has done, is doing and will do for us,
    that so we may gain strength and wisdom for
    III.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    32 Belief in God.

    III. the accomplishment of our own duty to Him, to
    our neighbour and to ourselves.
    --------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------

    I believe in God,
    the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth ,
    words which bear witness to the highest power
    and the true end of man; words which include
    all that is made plainer to us by the slow un-
    folding of
    the divine purpose; words which fix
    for ever our fellowship with God, our fellowship
    one with another, our fellowship, I will venture
    to say, with all the works of God.
    --------------------------------------------------


    Please read Eph.3:9, 1 Cor.8:6, Acts 17:24-32, John 1: 1-18


    --------------------------------------------------
    I believe in God . To say this is to confess
    that we are not alone, ourselves, our families, our
    nation, our race, and yet that we are alone: not
    alone because we are bound to countless forms
    of finite being visible and invisible, alone, indi-
    vidually alone, because the full harmony of the
    universe depends upon the presence in due
    measure of all the parts, even of that feeblest
    part, which is inaudible it may be to our ears.
    --------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------
    to confess that the preservation of the
    world
    depends on Him Who made it: to confess
    that there is a unity of being of which there is
    one source and one end, that there is, in the
    words of St Paul, one God, the Father, of Whom
    are all things and we unto Him .
    These are the thoughts which we have to
    seek
    to bring into our life, thoughts of the un-
    searchable Majesty, and the unfailing Providence
    of God, of the endless variety and supreme unity
    of His creation
    , thoughts which at once pass into
    prayers
    .
    --------------------------------------------------


    --------------------------------------------------
    We confess that the God who is
    the soul's necessity has been revealed to us in
    Christ as the Father, is indicated by history as
    All-sovereign, is declared by nature as Maker of
    heaven and earth. Reaching out to these realities
    of life, pondering our connexion with the world,
    with humanity, with God, striving to give fuller
    distinctness to that which we apprehend vaguely,
    labouring now and again to bring the little details
    and difficulties of duty into the light of our
    confession
    , we say one to another I and I and I
    believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of
    heaven and earth .
    --------------------------------------------------

    This is just a small sample of what I have discerned. This is not the gospel, nor is the truth. This is universalism, utopian, gnostic, freemasonic jargon, covered with christian terms and ideas. He speaks nothing about the sins of mankind, and our separation from God as a result of it, in his expounding on God the Father, creator of all things. He does not mention Jesus Christ our Lord as being the creator, nor the beginner and finisher of our faith. Oh, he mentions Christ, but he does not mention Jesus Christ. He quite obviously avoids faith altogether and disquises it under "thoughts" and "words" and "knowledge".


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  10. natters

    natters
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    michelle, saying something is "universalism, utopian, gnostic, freemasonic jargon" does not make it so. Nothing you quoted is this. And your bolding technique leaves much to be desired. I have no idea why you bolded the words you did.
     
  11. natters

    natters
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    michelle said "I read the link you gave, and all the writings of Westcott provided on that same link."

    Ah, so prior to that you have never read Westcott and/or Hort firsthand? Yet you are comfortable readily spreading slanderous information about them, that you have not even verified yourself? Do you call that an honest examination of the issue? I do not.
     
  12. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    michelle, saying something is "universalism, utopian, gnostic, freemasonic jargon" does not make it so. Nothing you quoted is this. And your bolding technique leaves much to be desired. I have no idea why you bolded the words you did.
    --------------------------------------------------


    No, saying so doesn't make it so. The evidence makes it so.

    Why is it that one puts words or a word into bold print? That is your answer.

    He does not describe our Lord Jesus Christ as I know him. He is describing a strange god, whom I do not know.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  13. GrannyGumbo

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    Hey, I like her bolding techniques...it puts empahsis on what she wants you to see! By reading those words alone, one can practically know the whole story without having to read the entire page. I highlight all the time stuff I pass onto my son'n'law. [​IMG] That way he can skan thru' without having to read each cotton-picking word.

    Great links sisMichelle...ya done good, girl! I wondered where ya was yesterday, especially. You were VERY busy, eh?! May God be glorified!
     
  14. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Ah, so prior to that you have never read Westcott and/or Hort firsthand? Yet you are comfortable readily spreading slanderous information about them, that you have not even verified yourself? Do you call that an honest examination of the issue? I do not
    --------------------------------------------------


    Yes I did read it before. Prior to your providing that link today, I read from that same link, that information.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  15. michelle

    michelle
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    --------------------------------------------------
    Hey, I like her bolding techniques...it puts empahsis on what she wants you to see! By reading those words alone, one can practically know the whole story without having to read the entire page. I highlight all the time stuff I pass onto my son'n'law. That way he can skan thru' without having to read each cotton-picking word.

    Great links sisMichelle...ya done good, girl! I wondered where ya was yesterday, especially. You were VERY busy, eh?! May God be glorified!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hiya Sister Granny!


    Yes, may God be glorified! Amen.

    I am glad you understood why I put those words in bold. I am glad you understood what I was trying to show, and in relation to the links. Thank you Sister Granny! Yes, all day and night yesturday, and the previous day and night (very late) I was busy workin to prepare for this thread. Even though I kinda figured my efforts might be in vain for the most that post here. I knew you would see it and understand, and I thank our Lord for that. Hopefully those who don't ever post, but wander on the site, will be blessed by it also.

    It is funny, these men slander our Lord Jesus Christ and have decieved many, but others are accused of slandering them for pointing out this truth. Go figure.

    It's always good to see you and read your posts sisGranny! I love ya dear sis!

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  16. natters

    natters
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    You bolded words like "for", "God", "fellowship", etc. I am not a mind-reader. You'll have to explain to me how such words are "universalism, utopian, gnostic, freemasonic jargon". You take one small sampling of text, and ignore piles of others, and make assumptions about what he means. False assumptions. Erroneous assumptions.

    You complain that he did not mention Jesus and His role, but fail to comprehend that the chapter you quoted from was commentary from the "God the Father" part of the Apostle's Creed. Perhaps if you had gone on to chapters 4, 5, 6 and 7, the chapters about Jesus, the Son, you would not have been so quick to make such comments. You say he mentions "Christ" but not "Jesus Christ" - well, just read the next chapter and see what he says there! All this is obvious from the main table of contents page you must have seen before finding the stuff you quoted.

    You are no better at honest research than those whose deliberate out-of-context quotes are exposed on the website. Very, very disappointing - but not unexpected.
     
  17. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------

    You bolded words like "for", "God", "fellowship", etc. I am not a mind-reader. You'll have to explain to me how such words are "universalism, utopian, gnostic, freemasonic jargon". You take one small sampling of text, and ignore piles of others, and make assumptions about what he means. False assumptions. Erroneous assumptions.

    --------------------------------------------------

    I provided all those links that explain this to you, if you care to really know the truth, and the connection.
    This is now your job to understand from the information given to, and provided for you. I am not your teacher.


    --------------------------------------------------
    You are no better at honest research than those whose deliberate out-of-context quotes are exposed on the website. Very, very disappointing - but not unexpected.
    --------------------------------------------------


    No, the problem isn't mine, nor anyone elses research abilities, but your lack of understanding that research because you do not seem to care for the truth and are stubborn to it and what that research has revealed.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  18. natters

    natters
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    Are you going to read chapters 4-7 on that site, and reconsider your words about his view on Jesus?
     
  19. michelle

    michelle
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    --------------------------------------------------
    He followed with delight the development of natural science studies at Cambridge. He spared no pains to be accurate, or to widen the basis of his thought. Thus he devoted one summer vacation to the careful analysis of Comtes Politique positive. He studied assiduously The Sacred Books of the East, and earnestly contended that no systematic view of Christianity could afford to ignore the philosophy of other religions. The outside world was wont to regard him as a mystic; and the mystical, or sacramental, view of life enters, it is true, very largely into his teaching. He had in this respect many points of similarity with the Cambridge Platonists of the 17th century, and with F. D. Maurice, for whom he had profound regard.
    --------------------------------------------------

    From this link:

    http://58.1911encyclopedia.org/W/WE/WESTCOTT_BROOKE_FOSS.htm


    (not a KJVO site - and this same info. is also included in one of the pro Westcott Hort sites)


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  20. michelle

    michelle
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    --------------------------------------------------
    Are you going to read chapters 4-7 on that site, and reconsider your words about his view on Jesus?
    --------------------------------------------------


    I already have. No, I do not reconsider.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     

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