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we've baptized Roman Catholicism

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by nodak, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Ummmm....
    what's next on the menu ?
    anything........exotic ?
     
  2. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Uh....Catholics like to build gigantic gingerbread houses in forests to lure children in so they can pop them in the oven and gobble them up. I may have my stories mixed up however....
     
  3. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Quote:Originally Posted by Tom Butler
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by churchianity.

    From Tom:Oh, if that's the case, I'm all for it.
    AIC:
    Tom responds: There was one. The one Jesus established during his earthly ministry. The Twelve were the material. It had a Head, it had marching orders (Matt 10:5-15), it had ordinances, it had power over demons, and it had a message.

    Tom:
    AIC
    Tom responds: The ordinances were not given to individuals. They were given to the local church. Instructions on the proper observance of the Lord's Supper were given by Paul to the congregation at Corinth--a local church. The first commission was given to the disciples and sent out as a group (Matt 10) The second was given to the eleven as the church (Matt 28) Instructions on discipline were given to the twelve, telling how to deal with recalcitrant members (Matt 18) They were told to "tell it to the church."

    The congregation at Corinth was instructed to exclude from the congregation an offending member. Paul told the Corinthian congregation (Ch 12) YOU are the body of Christ.

    AIC
    Tom responds: The first church was formed when Jesus finished calling his twelve disciples, after the baptism by John. But the Lord's Supper was observed in that upper room by his church, assembled. Churches assemble. The U-Church does not, and if it existed, it would be disobedient to the admonition in Hebrews 10:25 to not forsake assembling together.


    AIC
    Tom responds. You're defining the kingdom, not the church

    Tom responds: Something doesn't compute. There can't be one church and at the same time be many churches.

    One last thing: Everything the church at Jerusalem had on the day of Pentecost, it had before Pentecost.
     
    #23 Tom Butler, Jan 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2011
  4. nodak

    nodak Active Member
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    Tom, I think you "get it."

    Let me clarify a few things.

    It isn't the content of the BFM I object to--it is the way some use it as higher than the scriptures, a litmus test for who is really saved and who isn't.

    There is a passage of scripture that tells us we do not get to judge another's servant. My fellow Christians are God's servants, not this old grandma's.
    And not yours, whoever you may be.

    We are told in scripture to "let each be fully convinced in his own mind." That is the seed kernal of a seemingly lost old Baptist teaching: the priesthood of the believer.

    So, yes, we may need to debate ISSUES in the church.

    But there simply is no excuse, before the Lord, in my opinion, for namecalling and ridiculing.

    Some churches call women as SS teachers. You may disagree with that practice and for good reason, but you have no business declaring she is "in rebellion." You cannot know her heart, and are not just judging her heart but the heart of everyone in that church. Nothing wrong with saying you believe they are engaging in an unscriptural action. Very wrong to judge their soul.

    Some are YEC, others are OEC including gap theory. You may find gap theory to be all wet and unscriptural and feel led to proclaim that fact. Fine and dandy. But to sarcastically state the gap is between the ears of those who hold to it again crosses the line.

    We will stand and account for our every word before the Lord. So yes, we need to stand up for truth as we understand it. But we also need to speak the truth in love.

    I believe in assembling and do so every Sunday if at all possible. But I don't kid myself--the church also assembles in my town in homes, at Starbucks', at McDonald's, at pick up tailgates, and lots of other places that are not registered for tax deductible donations.

    We need to be full of the Holy Spirit, but not full of ourselves.
     
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    nodak,
    I'm a bit confused by your post #24. You addressed it to me, but it appears to me that you are making some general statements, and are not refuting things that I said. The reason I'm thinking this is that I didn't say most of the things you refer to.

    Would you clarify?
     
  6. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    Actually, this is not quite true. They will grant the baptism valid only as it falls under their authority as THE CHURCH on earth. In other words, a alien baptism is accepted because the RCC says that it is, they're granting the grace, not God.

    About the "one church" issue. We would be better served to speak of the Bride of Christ -- which is His church -- of all the born again Christians who have ever lived. While we have local congregations, all exist together under one Shepherd and one Lord, Jesus Christ.

    About "baptizing" RC theology, we're running headlong into it these days, and all the debates on the board seem to bear that out. I wonder just how many here who argue for human involvement in the salvation process realize that they're arguing more of a RC theology than a Protestant or Evangelical theology. The Reformers broke from Catholicism and in that break, they returned to a very biblio-centric view, with a Sovereign God that did not need human priests to do His work. Consider just how many here suggest that humans act the role of a human priest when they come to God in "faith" before the salvific act.

    We would be wise to take a moment to re-discover the 5 Solas of the Reformation:

    1 Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")
    2 Sola fide ("by faith alone")
    3 Sola gratia ("by grace alone")
    4 Solus Christus or Solo Christo ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone")
    5 Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

    In particular, this line is telling:

    I have heard multile, multiple people on this board argue the RC position, that faith and good works yield justification!
     
    #26 glfredrick, Jan 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2011
  7. BobinKy

    BobinKy New Member

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    [​IMG]



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    [​IMG]



    Judgement against our friends, family, neighbors and strangers simmers deep within our hearts. Occasionally it might pop out as gossip or a sharp word, but we try to police ourselves about that, because we know it sounds bad. We don’t want to be known as judgmental people, but truthfully, even when we don’t actually say what we’re thinking, it is just so easy to harbor our verdicts, the bitter condemnations of people around us, deep in our hearts. We don’t want to judge. We know we’re not supposed to, but it just comes so easily to us.

    One of the problems here is that we try to avoid judgmental behaviors without really working on judgmental attitudes. We try to catch that stuff before it gets out of our mouths, but really, by the time we get to that place we’ve really already lost the battle. The mouth is just speaking out of the abundance of the heart, and it’s the fact that all that condemnation is in our heart that is really the issue. Our morality begins with our identity, or at least our understanding of our identity. The way we understand ourselves controls the way we interact with other people and perceive them in powerful ways.

    Steven Hovater ​

     
  8. nodak

    nodak Active Member
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    Tom--no attempt to refute you, but agreeing with you!
     
  9. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Oh, good. Thanks for the clarification. I'm a little dense sometimes. I chalk it up to my advancing age.
     
  10. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    From BobinKy's post #27
    I'm going to start a new thread about judging rather than derail this one, since in one scripture we're told "judge not," and in another scripture we're told to do exactly that.
     
  11. calvin

    calvin New Member

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    this has always puzzled me. i would agree with much of what you state here, but where do we get the idea the the Church of Rome is the Great Whore, found in Revelation? i think thats a bit harsh. just my opinion. :1_grouphug:
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Terminology like that is just another item you can add to the list of things hateful people do to be noticed. :praying:
     
  13. calvin

    calvin New Member

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    Thank you EWF. i wouldnt necessarily say his terminology was hateful. just ignorant. from my own studies, there is much more to the Whore of babylon that meets the eye. it states that it is the city wherein our Lord Jesus Christ was Crucified. this was not Rome. it is not even
    Jerusalem, seeing how Christ was crucified outside of the city. i think it has a more deeper meaning somehow. also the poster, may have some deep animosity due to his upbringing and subsequent conversion. i can understand this. but im sure there are Catholics who have converted from protestantism, who feel the same as him. both are wrong. if we dont love according to the Gospel, then we are nothing. we can judge, but not a persons eternal destiny, or their standing with God. that is His servant, not ours. and before Him we stand or Fall. look at what the apostle John says. Love one another. look at what Jesus says. "the two greatest commandments are these. that you love the Lord your God, with all your heart soul and mind. and the second is like it. that you love your neighbor as yourself." we must keep this in mind. when dealing with everyone. Peace
     
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