Wh y the misconception?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Shiloh, Dec 11, 2003.

  1. Shiloh

    Shiloh
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    I asked two questions in the FUNDAMENTALIST board. I had a few replies and most were critical. I have been labeled a hate monger because I am a fundamentalist. My posts were deleted in Bible Study forum when I disagreed with the moderator on the study of the Children of Israel crossing the ...reed sea? I also got a private message to back off when I told a fellow that God gave up the homosexuals, Rom.1.
    Now my question to this board....remember it is the fundamental board, right?
    When someone speaks out agains sin on this board are they labeled a hater of sinners?
    I am a pastor, have been for a long time. I do not hate sinners. However I do preach against sin! So did Harold Sightler, Billy Kanoy, Maze Jackson, Billy Kelly, Andy Telford, Lehman Strauss, Bill Rice and John R. Rice who was mentioned on this board as one who would not be using the King James Bible today if he were alive. That is not true! These men I knew, I knew were they stood. John Rice was asked one time in a campmeeting to preach against smoking because there were some people on the camp ground smoking. Dr. Rice said he would pray about it. His first message in that meeting was on....tobacco. He told the people it was a sin to fill the temple of the Holy Spirit with tobacco smoke. Then he preached the message....on growing the wicked stuff. You see the very people that asked him to preach against it, grew it. As soon as he finished his message they asked him to go! That was in Lancaster County Pennsylvania.
    Why are we looked on a hate mongers because we preach against sin? I noted a few things in one post and it upset some folks on this forum! We are going to stand before Christ someday doesn't that mean anything to you people.
    Another question, Why do you always want to be living close to the world? Dancing, drinking, smoking is wordly traits, why would a christian want to be even close to the world when God tells us not to love the world?
    I guess John the Baptist had his head cut off for preaching against sin.....I guess we are in good company.
     
  2. Butterflies4mami

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    I am in the same boat you are. I am either ignored, or made fun of, or plainly put- criticized for anything I stand for while posting! Drinking, dancing, smoking, wearin britches, short hair, staying at home, KJV, Christian music only, etc. I was one of perhaps 3 out of all the posts that had anything negetive to say about the blessed Harry Potter books! Go figure. I never say anything with a mean spirit, but with what spirit am I criticized with? I guarantee not a sweet one! As long as " being friends with the world is enmity with Christ" I'll even stay away from the "outskirts" of the world!
    In Christ,
    Peggy
    Is. 6:8 [​IMG]
     
  3. Helen

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    Shiloh,

    Barry deleted your posts criticizing the other responses on the study forum. He also deleted my responses answering you. He also deleted another person's responses to you. It's a study forum, not a debate forum. It was not against you personally, although I did see your last post there before it was deleted and it was indeed rather full of nastiness!

    I agree with you, by the way, about the crossing being at the Red Sea and not a "Reed Sea." But the Bible study forum is a place to present varioius ideas and maybe discuss them, but NOT to argue about them or to question someone else's salvation, which is what you did.

    "Fundamental" means that we believe the Bible to be absolutely true IN THE ORIGINAL SIGNATURES. The debates about various translations is another argument altogether. Being a fundamentalist does not mean that there are a series of rules we must follow in order to fit into that category. David danced before the Lord, for instance, which you know. However I do understand the deep dissatisfaction with some of the 'dancing' that goes on today among the teens -- I'm the mother of six myself, ages 19-30 now. And while drunkenness is absolutely prohibited by the Bible, the matter of anything alcoholic to drink at all is a matter of debate and one can have a glass of wine occasionally and still be a fundamentalist.

    In the meantime, it is quite necessary to be 'close to' the world, as we are to live in it as witnesses. The commandment about others is not to avoid them, but to care for them -- to love them. That does not mean you have to approve of what they do, but it does mean that you have to be willing to take care of those the Lord puts into your life NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE, with the same dedication and concern you give your own self.

    We are not OF the world, but we are most certainly in it.

    In the meantime, I agree with you about smoking. I feel exceptionally strongly about it, actually, since I grew up in a home where both parents smoked and because my mother smoked while she was pregnant with me, I had tooth decay from my earliest memories; most of my teeth are crowns now. I have paid a heavy price in pain and dollars for my mother's smoking habit!

    But if she had been a Christian, that would not have stopped her from entering heaven.

    The trademark of a born again Christian is in the character. They will know us by our love. Especially as a preacher, it is quite important that this is what people see in your posts, especially in regard to other Christians.
     
  4. tinytim

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    How can you win the world by staying away fronm them. Remember "The world" is just sinners like us. I appreciate people standing for what they believe when they can back it up with the Bible. It's when they get into the extra biblical subjects and declaring them as truth that's what i have a problem with. That's what got the Pharisees into trouble! They would probably fit in to most modern day "fundamentalist" churches. BTW, KJVO was not one of the fundamentals.
     
  5. David Mark

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    If you've ever been a slave to sin (any sin for any length of time), and then made free or become free, you may understand the deep deception behind it. The deception goes very deep and it holds folks captive and unable to break the chains of their bondage. Many do not even know that they are truly devoted slaves to sin. That is why, when some folks finally see the deception, they are willing to forsake much to resist it's evil.

    For me, this is where there is much room for compassion for a fellow man. Men cannot convince or reveal the deception. IMO, only God can do that in his mercy. I say mercy, because the decree against sin had already been given. I think that is one of the reasons I am compelled, or rather more accurately, commanded to love my neighbor with all my heart, soul, mind and strength. To offer them hope, if I get the privilege to.

    If you decide to speak against sin to those who are in bondage to it or deceived, then please consider weeping and trembling with a lump in your throat. You should never offend anyone with that kind of heart. Remember the days when you couldn't break your own chains. Then remember from whence and whom your insight and wisdom comes from. It is then that you may be perceived as one who has been raised from the dead and now speaks. What a testimony this would be for you. I was dead, but I was raised to life and I have something to say about it(smile).

    Then your words of truth will be bathed in compassion and understanding and when you speak against sin, I think folks might hear God. Whether they repent or not is another matter. I don't see anything wrong in having pity on those who are deceived. I don't see anything wrong with having compassion on those who are deceived. For I was once there and I know what forgiveness is. Even today, as a believer I am constantly tempted. But now I have a shield. Be mindful and have compassion for those who have not or know not how to use the shield of faith.

    The Christ was a man who was tempted and sinned not. We come from a sinful background and were once slaves to sin. But we have been made free from its bondage because of what a sinless man (sent from God) did for our sakes or on our behalf. This to me is "good news" and worth sharing. And to those who receive this message, they are offered freedom from the bondage of sin and given eternal life.

    There is much room for compassion for those who are deceived. They know not what they do. I've been there myself.

    One day, everyone will know the extent of the deception. Every knee shall bow and everyone will agree with God.

    Dave.
     
  6. Shiloh

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    Being a fundamentalist means we can pick and choose what we believe....NOT SO folks. We have a guide BOOK! Many of you have changed it however God still holds the original and we will be judged out of it!
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Shiloh,

    I am sure that you would not call me a fundamentalist,yet,I believe the Word of God to be our ONLY guide of faith and practise.

    Where does the Word of God say that women in the 21st century western world cannot wear trousers?

    Where does the Bible say I cannot take my child to the cinema to see "Finding Nemo?"

    Where does the Bible say that I cannot listen to The Carpenters?

    Where does the Bible say that a man's hair cannot touch his collar?

    Where does the Bible say I cannot wear a beard?

    This is just a start - I have been told that all of these things are either a sin or at least ungodly. I was saved into a fundamentalist church in 1973, went to Tennessee Temple University and Seminary, taught in a Christian school attached to a fundamental Baptist Church, am a member of and sent to the mission field by a fundamental independent Baptist church and am serving through an independent fundamental mission board.

    Please share how the things I mentioned would disqualify me from being a Fundamentalist. I DO NOT oppose your own right to hold those standards, my wife does not wear trousers for example, but are those standards what makes one a fundamentalist?
     
  8. I Am Blessed 24

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    Actually, there were several of us (on different threads) that posted Harry Potter books are dangerous. Sadly, it is not a popular view on the BB.

    I agree with most of the things you listed, but not all of them. That's why Baptists are so neat, they are diverse!

    I believe I have the right to voice my convictions and standards, and even discuss why I have them.

    I do NOT believe I have the right to condemn those who may not have the same ones I do.

    Every Christian grows at a different rate. God shows us what we need to do each step of the way.

    Me thinks we need to listen to Him more...

    [​IMG] ┬žue
     
  9. Walls

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    Shiloh,

    You will find that if you have a conviction about anything it will most certainly set you apart. If you speak on this conviction (regardless of what manner you use) then you are pushing your beliefs. If you are seeking the Lord about a specific area and trying to gain insight from others you are just going way too far.

    The proper mode is to go with the flow and not ruffle any feathers. Love everyone and only speak when it is edifying to the hearer. It most definetly is not proper to show people sin or what it is, that can only come from God. If you can follow these simple steps in board etiquette you will be fine. [​IMG]

    Now with all that aside, you can't take things personal. If moderators detect you are attacking someone (even if you are provoked) they most certainly will delete your posts. And then when it gets to the place where you just can't handle it anymore, take a break for a while or leave like so many others have! Remember the key is not to be personal.
     
  10. All about Grace

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    Perhaps the only misconception is your idea of what it means to be a fundamentalist. And by the way, it has nothing to do with tobacco or "britches".
     
  11. Archippus

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    Drinking, dancing, smoking, wearin britches, short hair, staying at home, KJV, Christian music only, etc.

    Are these really issues that determine fundamentalism? Drinking I understand, dancing (is this in church, socially, with one's own spouse?), smoking I agree is sin, it defiles the temple of the Holy Spirit, wearing britches (?????), short hair (??????), staying at home (?????), KJV (I know that can be an issue), Christian music only (no Bach, Handel, Beethoven??)

    This is dizzying! I'm confused :confused: .
     
  12. Matt Black

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    Me too! I'm not sure what half of these have to do with The Fundamentals , let alone the Bible!

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  13. Johnv

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    It's right there in the Book of Hezekiah!!! :D
     
  14. Butterflies4mami

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    Not trying to push my personal beliefs on anyone, folks, just saying that what I believe Biblically and per opinion seems to be targetted for hateful comments. That's all, don't know much about the person who started the thread, thought it was about frustration of being singled out, that's all!
    In Christ,
    Peggy

    Ps. Hubby likes the GodFather Soundtrack- lots of Classical. Although I think we have to be very careful with music, seems to be Satan's speciality!?!
     
  15. Walls

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    You must definetly have a version of the Bible instead of The Bible. Hezekiah must be one of those added books. ;)
     
  16. Butterflies4mami

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    Not trying to push my personal beliefs on anyone, folks, just saying that what I believe Biblically and per opinion seems to be targetted for hateful comments. That's all, don't know much about the person who started the thread, thought it was about frustration of being singled out, that's all!
    In Christ,
    Peggy

    Ps. Hubby likes the GodFather Soundtrack- lots of Classical. Although I think we have to be very careful with music, seems to be Satan's speciality!?!
     
  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I don't think everyone would agree that anyone is free to hold to their own standards. I have some of my own, but if they are not bible standards I don't express as so. I think our own standards have a Bible basis, but are not clearly taught.

    Please don't ever think that I oppose personal standards, but some of the things I have been criticised for (like my beard) go beyond personal standards.

    Hold to your standards, defend them, even call them convictions if you wish - but if they are not in the Word of God don't try to hold others to them.
     
  18. Scott J

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    You asked "Why the misconception?"

    So I will give you my perception.

    You didn't exactly come in here offering an olive branch. Based on your posts, I surmise that you have heard certain things preached and taught for so long that you have accepted them uncritically as "biblical". Also, you appear to be a preacher who is used to telling others what to believe and not having what you tell them questioned or challenged. Anyone who does dare challenge you is probably labeled a liberal, ungodly, worldly, carnal, etc. and put in their respective place.

    You probably run with folks who believe as you do and believe as you do about folks who don't agree with you.

    You came in here expecting to straighten us out. Instead, we have not only challenged the biblical basis of your beliefs, we have challenged the very foundations and definitions that you have built your beliefs on. You came in here ready to slam us all with your mighty "fundamental, Bible believing" hammer but instead were confronted with the facts that fundamentalism isn't what you thought it was and Bible believer does not equal being KJVO.

    My honest assessment is that you are like a playground bully who has just gotten his nose busted by someone you thought of as a bunch of sissies. As I have seen many times with people like you since joining this board, you now want to claim to be the persecuted but righteous victim.

    I hope you stay. Maybe we can learn from one another and even agree on some things. But if you can't handle being challenged then you came to the wrong place. Maybe the foundations for your beliefs aren't as strong as you thought.

    Knowing why we believe what we believe is possibly more important to fundamentalists than any other group.
     
  19. Daniel David

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    The role of the moderator might not be what you think it should be.

    You asked a question and Scott answered it. If you don't like the answer, fine. Just don't forget that you asked.
     
  20. HankD

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    And it will be with our own yardstick.

    Matthew 7
    KJV Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
     

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