What about cain ?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, May 23, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Cain was not created in Adam in the beginning !

    When scripture gives us the generation of Adam, it does not include cain in the genealogy, simply because he was not originally part of that seed of mankind, created in Adam !

    Lets read scripture here Gen 5:1-32

    This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

    2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

    Note: Seth was a replacement for Abel whom cain murdered Gen 4:25-26

    25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

    26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.



    4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

    5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

    6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

    7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:

    8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.

    9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:

    10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:

    11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.

    12 And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel:

    13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:

    14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.

    15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:

    16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:

    17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.

    18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:

    19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

    20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.

    21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

    22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

    23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

    24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

    25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.

    26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:

    27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

    28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:

    29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.

    30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:

    31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.

    32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

    Notice, it was these who were out of that generation which God had created in Adam, when He created him in the likeness of God as per Gen 5:1-2 !

    Also if we read the genealogy of Christ as written in Lk 3:23-38, notice no mention of Adam's firstborn cain ! Again, that is because cain was not in Adam when man was created in the image of God in the beginning !

    Later scripture tells us why this is so ! Because cain was out of that wicked one 1 Jn 3:12

    12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

    Cain was of that wicked one , the devil, who was sown by him as Jesus makes clear here Matt 13:36-39

    36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

    37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Adam and his generations in the beginning is the good seed Gen 5:1-2

    38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

    The tares are those of the serpents seed as per Gen 3:15-16

    39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

    Cain was out of that generation, and not out of that Generation in Adam !
     
  2. The Biblicist

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    Oh for pete's sake gives us a break from your ranting ignorance! Go back and learn something from someone who knows a "little" bit of Bible.

    1. Cain and Abel were equally born of Adam and Eve and the Scripture plainly says so:

    Gen. 3:1 ¶ And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
    2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

    2. You just as well argue that Abel was not created in Adam either because his name is omitted from the Generations of Adam in Genesis 5!!!!!

    Gen. 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

    According to your logic Abel was no more created in Adam than Cain!!!:BangHead:
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    the bib

    I never said he was not born physically from Adam and Eve, that is plain from Gen 4:1

    However he was not originally created in Adam, The genealogy proves that !
     
  4. The Biblicist

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    Yeah, right:BangHead: Just as the geneology proves Abel was not created in Adam either because his name is EQUALLY missing from that geneology!!!:tongue3::tongue3::tongue3:
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    Contrary, scripture plainly states that he Seth was in the place of Abel ! Gen 4:25

    25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
     
  6. The Biblicist

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    Scripture equally plainly states that Cain was born of Adam and Eve as much as Abel or Seth as the very same language used in Genesis 4:25 is used of Cain and Abel equally in Genesis 4:1-2.

    Adam is clearly stated to be the father of Cain as the father of Abel. Eve is clearly stated to be the mother of Cain as the mother of Eve.

    Gen. 4:1 ¶ And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

    2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

    Cain was the direct product of union between Adam and Eve as much as any of their other children.

    Genesis 5 merely lists those among Adam's children and grandchildren who were the firstborn believers as he had many other children who were not believers:

    Gen. 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

    None of his daughters are listed in this geneology and neither are all his sons but one - "seth."
     
  7. Tom Butler

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    Here's one theory I have heard advanced:
    Seth was the godly line,which diminished over the centuries until only Noah and his family were left who were godly.
    Cain was the rebellious line, which proliferated, and were the ones destroyed by the flood.

    Is there anything to this view?
     
  8. DiamondLady

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    Here's an interesting question about Cain....why did God mark Cain? There was a purpose in the marking.
     
  9. Thinkingstuff

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    So are you saying Cain was a Neanderthal?
     
  10. billwald

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    "Cain was not created in Adam in the beginning "

    Please define "in" in this context. Pun intended.
     
  11. SolaSaint

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    I don't know what has been the past exchange here but isn't that some harsh language? Even if we disagree we need to come in love especially to a Brother or Sister.
     
  12. SolaSaint

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    saved,

    Are you claiming these verses to promote predestination of the Elect?
     
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Obivously you have not followed this conversation or any conversation by SBM for very long.
     
  14. SolaSaint

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    Not at all, but please don't let someone drag you into using harsh language.
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    That is exactly my point. He has labeled me and everyone else in the harshest language. Just go back and look at the history of his discussions with me and others.
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    Cain is not in the genealogy of Adam , His Generations, see the OP !
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    Jesus put cain in the generation of the serpent, observe Matt 23:31-36



    31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

    32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

    35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

    That word generation in vs 33 is the greek word gennēma and means:


    that which has been born or begotten

    a) the offspring or progeny of men or animals

    b) the fruits of the earth, the produce of agriculture

    Remember when God told the serpent this Gen 3:14-15

    14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    The word seed here which the Lord God said the serpent had is the word zera`

    and means

    seed, sowing, offspring

    a) a sowing

    b) seed

    c) semen virile

    d) offspring, descendants, posterity, children


    Jesus was calling those men in Matt 23 the offspring or the generation of the serpent, and He linked cain with them as he was one of them that murdered Righteous Abel !

    Thats why cain was not in the offspring or the generations of Adam Gen 5:1-4

    This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

    2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

    4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

    This also tells us that cain was never made in the Image of God, only those in Adam were !
     
  18. DiamondLady

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    Everyone conveniently ignored my question a few posts back, but it had everything to do with SBM's conjecture. Cain was important to God. God did not like what Cain had done but yet God marked Cain. Why? Did God mark Cain to PROTECT his life or PROLONG his life? If Cain was not a child of Adam, but an offspring of Satan (which is, I believe impossible...angels do not procreate, and Satan is a fallen angel) but for this discussion let us say it's possible, then why would God protect or prolong Cain's life? Would not God have turned him over to his murderous reprobate self and allow sin to have its way?

    We can not draw a conclusion based upon the idea that because someone is not mentioned in the genealogy that they're not a child of Adam. Secondly, these scripture verses you've conveniently pulled out to support your theory is about as ridiculous as the old joke where the preacher doesn't know what to preach so he picks out verses in the turn and point method. His sermon, "Judas went and hung himself" and the next verse, "Go ye and do likewise."

    God gave the descendents of Cain great gifts. TubalCain is the father of musical instruments. JubalCain a great musician. Following your theory then all music would be from Satan.

    Sometimes, to test a theory, one must draw it out to see where it goes and if the hypothosis fits the end result. In your case, it does not.
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    John writes and tells us the origin of cain, yes even though his physical existence did come through Adam and Eve, nevertheless he was out of the seed of the wicked one ! 1 Jn 3:12

    12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

    The word of here is the prep ek and means:


    out of, from, by, away from

    The blueletter lexicon defines ek as:

    A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative

    Now the elect on the other hand, they are not out of the wicked one, but out of the corruptible seed of Adam as Peter writes here 1 Pet 1:23

    23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    The word of is again the prep ek !

    So the Elect are given physical life from the fallen corrupted seed of Adam, which is redeemable, however the non elect are given physical life by means of Adam's fallen Nature, but only they come out of the serpents seed , which is not redeemable !

    So Jesus tells them He knows that are of that serpent seed this Matt 23:32-33

    32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    Jesus here is insinuating that these have no hope of Salvation at all !

    In fact, He does not even command them to repent, but His command to them was this vs 32

    Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

    In the greek this is an imperative from Christ to them ! In other words, Christ lets us know that these are vessels of God's wrath being fitted for destruction !

    No repentance for you, but just continue in your predetermined course to damnation ! Why ? Because they are the devils children in the world !
     
  20. billwald

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    Cain was a very virgin birth with no father or mother?
     

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