What about Christian music?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Ady, May 17, 2005.

  1. Ady

    Ady
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    I have seen that music, as always is an issue in the Church. Here is what I believe.

    God made music for His glory, because all things are for His glory. He made music good in the beginning, as the Bible says in Genesis 1:31 NASB

    “God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good.”

    Any music used in a way contrary to the Bible is something that the devil has perverted, but which God made originally for good. Rock is not bad in itself; perverted rock that has obscenities and sinful themes is what is wrong and against God’s decrees. When we listen to music with lyrics that are against God's Word, I believe that displeases Him and here's why:
    1. It puts sinful thoughts into your mind, which will eventually show themselves in
    actions and words if left unchecked, breaking our fellowship with God.
    2. Listening to music that is against God's Word and buying CDs is supporting these people and the themes, directly for the former, and indirectly for the latter.

    As others have said, created things in and of themselves aren't sinful, what we
    do with it that can be sinful or good. Isaiah 44 speaks of a block of wood:

    44:19-20 NASB “No one recalls, nor is there knowledge or understanding to say, 'I have burned half of it in the fire and also have baked bread over its coals. I roast meat and eat {it.} Then make the rest of it into an abomination, fall down before a block of wood!' He feeds on ashes; a deceived heart has turned him aside. And he cannot deliver himself, nor say, 'Is there not a lie in my right hand?'" The abomination is an idol, made by a piece of wood God made.

    In conclusion, through our own sinful desires, Satan perverts things. God can do
    the opposite, though, turn what Satan intended for evil into good.
    Ro. 7:18 KJV “ For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”
    Fortunately for God’s children, we have the Spirit working within us to show us the truth of our sins and to help us change when we are acting in a way contrary to the Word. Music was created by God, for God. What you do is between you and God. I highly advise anyone who is unsure about any conduct to seek for what God says, through prayer and His Word.

    Having said this, I also want to add that I respect those with opinions that are contrary, and I encourage them to show, with Scripture, why they believe otherwise. There is much more that certainly could be said! [​IMG]
     
  2. Artimaeus

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    I am just curious, where does it say that God made music? [​IMG]
     
  3. Trotter

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    There is no such thing as Christian music.

    There are Christian lyrics, but not Christian music.

    Those self-same lyrics can be sung to all types of music, including barroom tunes, to which many classic hymns were actually sung.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  4. Trotter

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    Good quote, but without form in this case.

    The same verse was used by a pastor I heard in order to back up his presupposition that God did not create/allow evil. Which is funny, 'cause if God didn't create it, or allow it, then it came to be outside of His sphere of influence, thus He wouldn't be omnipotent or omniscient, and therefore could not be God.

    If you want to make an arguement for your case, you're gonna need better back-up than that.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  5. Ady

    Ady
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    I totally agree, that's not the point I was making, but thanks for adding that.
     
  6. Gib

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    Are you talking about a specific music genre or are you lumping all Christian music together, as in hymns, anthems, octovos....?
     
  7. Ady

    Ady
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    I'm talking specifically about rock/modern, but yes, this applies to all music with Christian lyrics.
     
  8. Andy T.

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    The bar room tunes thing is an urban myth. Martin Luther wrote "bar hymns" meaning hymns with bar music, as in musical bars, not bars with drinking and carousing.

    The myth is kept alive by those who think all music is created equal, and that only the lyrics matter. Not true. Some music is objectively better than other music. Some music comes closer to glorifying God than other music. Here's an easy example - which music is better (forget any lyrics at this point) - Beethoven's 5th or Oops I Did It Again by B. Spears? Or how about some music by Bach vs. Ice Ice Baby by Vanilla Ice? Need I provide anymore ridiculous comparisons? Would it be okay if we sung the lyrics of Holy, Holy, Holy to the tune of She Shook Me All Night Long by AC/DC? (I actually had a Purpose-Driven Disciple admit to me, that yes, if that is what the un-churched want, then we should give it to them.)

    We need to get over this myth that all music is created equal.
     
  9. msinave

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    Well, since you asked, I personally would probably choose Oops I did it again or ice, ice baby - although i'm not familiar with either one. I'm just thinking that either has to be a brighter tune than Beethoven. Music is music. Lyrics glorify God, not musical notes.
     
  10. Andy T.

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    Why can lyrics glorify God but not music?

    [ May 18, 2005, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Andy T. ]
     
  11. Marcia

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    Who is going to be the judge of what musical notes glorify God and which do not? And what criteria will be used to make such judgments???
     
  12. Andy T.

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    Oh, I see, so we are not allowed to make any objective judgments regarding music? So can you tell me with a straight face that a piece by Bach or Mozart has no objective superiority over, let's say, "chopsticks"?
     
  13. Marcia

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    Oh, I see, so we are not allowed to make any objective judgments regarding music? So can you tell me with a straight face that a piece by Bach or Mozart has no objective superiority over, let's say, "chopsticks"? </font>[/QUOTE]On what objective basis are the "objective" judgments made? You can't just claim objective judgment and not give an objective basis for them.

    I think that in terms of judging Bach vs. "chopsticks," one could maybe argue for the superiority of musical quality. However, that has nothing to do with judging what music is Christian and what is not.

    What basis will be used for "Christian" music and who will draw the line between "Christian" musical notes and "non-Chirstian" musical notes, and how will they draw the line?
     
  14. KeithS

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    Just as I always thought...some music sounds good to me and other music does not. So much for the objectivity test.

    By the way, isn't "superiority" in the eyes of the beholder - and often influenced by bias.
     
  15. Andy T.

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    Marcia,

    As a disclaimer, I'm not even a music person; I can't play any instruments, nor can I even read music. I'm a math geek by trade.

    When it comes to the arts there is an element of subjectivity - I don't deny that. What is the objective standard? I don't know. But there is some element of objectivity, as my ludicrous examples show. "Chopsticks" isn't bad or evil; it's just...simple. And it can serve a purpose. Comparing Bach vs. chopsticks is like comparing Pilgrim's Progress with a nursery ryhme. The nursery ryhme isn't bad. It serves a purpose - to entertain little children. But to say a nursery ryhme is equal in quality and beauty as Pilgrim's Progress makes no sense.

    Should Christian musicians be content with producing music that is merely adequate or should they strive to make more excellent music? As listeners, are we merely content with nursery ryhmes to entertain us as little children, or do we long to hear more excellent music?

    I know my repsonse here is not a very good answer. I admit that I'm still working through all this - I don't have all the answers. But on the flip side, I still haven't received a good answer as to why music cannot glorify God only the lyrics. So I'm just trying to get people to re-think their assumptions on this issue.
     
  16. ktn4eg

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    Just wondering:

    Am I to understand that all styles of music are inherently neutral; that is, that there is no style of music that, by itself, is neither godly nor ungodly?

    In other words, is there a partcular style (or genre) of music that you see as strictly forbidden by God's Word?

    Please supply scripture to justify your position, whichever that may be.
     
  17. webdog

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    What if chopsticks was played while singing lyrics that praises God, while Beethoven and Bach were used to Marilyn Manson's lyrics? Music is music, and in itself is not sinful, but the words man adds to it can make it sinful. Whether you play the piano or the electric guitar, do it for the glory of the Lord.
     
  18. Andy T.

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    Keith, you could never convince me that chopsticks is superior to a piece by Bach. In this example, it is not merely in the eye of the beholder; it is an objective fact. Now if you want to compare a piece by Bach vs. one by Mozart, then yes, there will be a great deal of subjectivity in such comparison.

    But what I have shown in my silly example is that some music is inherently better than other music. And so this belief that all music is created equal is simply not true.
     
  19. KeithS

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    So - does music glorify God by it's sound, it's lyrics, or a combination? What part does the composer play? The listener?

    This is getting awfully complex.
     
  20. Andy T.

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    I don't deny that lyrics are important and need to be godly. But if God has gifted you in music, hopefully you will be able to produce something superior to the tune of chopsticks. If not, then you are not gifted in music, and you need to find another way to glorify God.

    Like I said earlier - I don't have all the answers; just challenging some commonly held assumptions.
     

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