What about Christmas Presents under a Christmas Tree in the Church???

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by College_Gurl, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. College_Gurl

    College_Gurl
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    Reading the thread "Christmas Tree in Church" made me think of presents!

    So, what is you guys thoughts of having presents (more than likely just wrapped empty boxes) under the Christmas tree in your church? Even if you don't put up a Christmas tree in your church, still would like to hear your thoughts as well!

    Me personally, having a Christmas tree in the church is ok! However, putting presents under it is not what I would do. I think by doing that we're bringing more worldly views into the church!
     
  2. Jeep Dragon

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    Realize that everything that is not specifically spelled out in the Bible is open for interpretation of the Holy Spirit.

    1. Does it offend you?
    2. Does it offend others in the church?
    3. Does it offend the majority of other in the church?

    Ask the opinion of everyone in the church concerning this matter. If you are the only one who thinks this way you have two options:
    1. Deal with it.
    2. Kindly tell your pastor your view and see how he responds.

    If anyone else in your church feels the same way. Kindly let the pastor know your and other people's opinions and suggest that if presents are not under the tree, no one will be offended.
    If he laughs and tells you that there is nothing wrong with it you have two options.
    1. Deal with it
    2. Have everyone who is offended by it talk to the pastor about it.

    If he is confronted by people about this he will respond in two ways:
    1. He will tell them that they are making an issue out of nothing.
    2. He will agree and get rid of the presents.

    Either choice he makes is final. This is not something that should lead to a split-up in the church. If he decides to keep the presents under the tree regardless of your convictions, and your conscience bothers you concerning the presents and the pastor's attitude toward you, you have two options:
    1. Deal with it.
    2. Leave the church.

    No matter what happens, Paul tells us time and time again to avoid offending our brethren. Details such as this are not spelled out specifically in Scripture. Let your conscience be your guide. I cannot give you an exact answer. Have I answered your question?
     
  3. ituttut

    ituttut
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    Have you just said the Christmas tree is bringing the world into the church? If so contamination has already started. It should be stopped, and if not it would seem presents empty or full should be accepted.
     
  4. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    The church is not the building, it is US.

    If we have a Christmas tree at home; why not the church building?

    Presents? Why not? We have presents under the tree at home.

    We give presents to Jesus. After all, it's His birthday!
     
  5. gb93433

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    Excellent point. Each Christmas we have chosen to not buy much for ourselves and instead buy for others who have more need than we do. Christmas is a depressing time for some who have no home to go to, or any money to provide for their own basic needs.

    Personally if I have a need for something I have the money to buy it. Others are not in my position.

    A few years ago I was attending a Sunday School class and someone brought it to our attention about a couple who was seriously struggling financially. So I asked the teacher if it would be appropriate if we could take up an offering. We collected about $400 from what people had inn theri wallets. The young couple who brought it up, delivered it to the couple. He came back with a report of how thankful the couple was. It is times like that which makes me think I have so much and I can give so other can just have something.

    There are people in our churches who are struggling to get by on $400 per month while others are living lavishly. We must help the lavish livers to realize that they wil be blessed when they give to those who do not have.

    Years ago my wife and I attended a church where we saw people being taken care of and provided for. We were confident that if anything happened to us the church would help us. That church had been doing that since it was started in 1929. Anyone who came in and did not have enough was given enough if the church knew about it because they would take up a collection. The church has never been in debt or ever lacked for money or resources.
     
  6. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Great post! Our church has worked that way since it's inception in the 1920's also.

    I consider giving to people less fortunate than I the same as giving to Jesus.

    He doesn't need money, but a lot of His children do and I believe He uses us to fulfill those needs.

    I have found that it truly IS more blessed to give than to receive...
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    Only if they have my name on them!!!! ;)
     
  8. ituttut

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    For those of us who can afford it, why not give on a weekly or monthly basis to those in need.

    If He had asked me to remember His Birthday, I believe He would have told me when it was. Since He didn't, and requested I remember in the "bread and the cup", I believe I'll obey Him and not what man has come up with.
     
  9. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    We take up a 'love offering' every Wednesday night at church so it will be available when someone needs it.
     
  10. saturneptune

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    Amen to that. This has absolutely nothing to do with bringing the world into the church. Actually, it should be up to each local congregation as the Spirit leads.
     
  11. College_Gurl

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    I know presents were givin to Jesus by the wise men, but I'm referring to the view of the world on presents. Let me elaborate a little bit; like w/ Santa there is always presents associated with him. I was thinking that the church is starting to focus more on the world's view on Christmas & not the real meaning. World's view being focusing on presents & not Christ! World's view not all wrong, b/c do give out of the heart, but have takin Jesus out of the giving! Now, don't get me wrong I totally believe in giving; & not only @ Christmas time as well. Hope I cleared up some things there!
     
    #11 College_Gurl, Nov 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2006
  12. ituttut

    ituttut
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    Very good points College_Gurl, and see you have questions unanswered. This may not answer your question/s, and not all directed to you. But you do question, therefore you have insight, and can see something is not right.

    I am not an ogre, or Scrooge, for I observe the tradition of man in these holidays we make festive. It is good and fine for the "kids" to learn about Santa Claus, knowing as they mature that this is how we operate in this world. We want to love, and give gifts for we are after all full of "vanity", and we will do what makes us "feel good". So we should keep this before us acknowledging we are after all human.

    But should we do this believing Jesus will love us more for "remembering" Him on His very own Birthday? We know it is true for a "church" told us so, but then if they just made it up, it was still a very good idea, for it will give us a Day in the year when we can "really, really worship" by giving gifts to our friends and loved one's. And we do this for some reason we think He wants us to do this for Him.

    It is difficult for me to associate this day, and the season with the birth of Jesus. Everything we find in it is wrong. The day, the time of year, the confusion of Wise Men in attendance at His birth is known to be wrong. Animals gathered around, which animals were out to pasture in September/October, and a Star overhead that night?

    Such things as these are likely the reason His Word gives no instructions to us to observe the "birth of God the Son". The Word became flesh, and was not His (God's beginning) Birthday. He was before. The Word has no "beginning and no ending". I just cannot understand why we want to "bring Him down here" to remember Him - Romans 10:6.

    We see I Am Blessed 16 thinks Christmas is Jesus' birthday. You show this one time only, as far as scripture is concerned was the only time Jesus received any gifts from man, and it wasn't on the day He was born, but two years later, and He was in a manger, and it wasn't winter time, i.e. in December.

    In Matthew 2:11 we see what the wise men do and what is in the room. They came to worship the "King of The Jews", and bowed down to Him and gave Him gifts. There was no Christmas tree there, and they didn't give Mary any presents.

    Perhaps you know this about the "tree" we must have to worship on this very Holy Day. Where did we come up with the idea of this "Christian" practice? We find it in the Bible, and God tells those that are His to not follow and do things the heathen do.

    Yet we bring the tree into our homes on this most Holy of Days, so surely we should bring this greenery into our churches. We do this even though He tells those of His to not bring the heathen customs of vain people into His presence at any time (into our homes, or into our churches to contaminate all). By the hands of man we seek to walk by sight, needing something to be pleasing to our eyes to help us in "remembering" Him. God tell's us the type of people who do such things as this in Jeremiah 10:2-8. Our doctrine of vanities is difficult to overcome, and in this as with other things we show we had rather follow man than God.

    Where is our authority to act as the heathen, believing it to be His will that teaches we are pleasing Him, as you say by giving gifts to each other, and not Him. Things always become very confusing when we take matters out of His hands, then begin using ours, doing our will.

    The Wise Men did what the Wise Men in the Far East did. It was their "common custom" in that day. A New King had been born awhile back, and as their custom they came to give "gifts" to a King. But they knew this King was different, for they also came to "worship" and give "gifts". They were very straight forward in asking and giving their purpose "Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship Him" , Matthew 2:2. They didn't need a tree to worship Him, but they "saw Him". We see a "tree" and this reminds of Jesus, this "green tree" that cannot talk, walk, or move. A "green tree" in the Bible shows to be of "Idol worshippers". It is not just the color, but showing we really are worshipping the tree, for who can worship Christ on His Birthday without a tree in our house, or in our church. It just won't be Christmas without it.
     
  13. Bro. James

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    Presents under the tree in the Assembly

    If one has to ask if one's white shirt looks soiled--it probably is.

    In the wonderful world of right and wrong, the question is not: What is wrong with it?; but rather: "What is right with it?"

    This is not a major dilemma if we use the scripture as the standard and try to avoid the doctrines and commandments of men--sometimes a very lonely road to travel.

    Choose wisely,

    Bro. James
     
  14. Watchman

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    Green Tree

    Good points; so here are the Scriptures:
    Deut. 12:2; IKings 14:23; IIKings 16:4; IIKings 17:10; IIChron 28:4; Isa. 57:5; Jer. 2:20; Jer. 3:6; Jer. 3:13; Eze. 6:13.
    Okay, yes, I am a critic of Christmas, for many reasons. But what God's Word says about the green tree is crystal clear. There is never a mention in the Bible about any activity involving the green tree as being God honoring. It always refers to idolatrous practices, as these passages attest.
    Now, there is, I feel, such a thing as Christian liberty. Is having a tree within allowable bounds of Christian liberty? For me, obviously, it would be sin (Whatsoever is not of faith is sin); but I do not throw stones at well-meaning brothers and sisters who have these trees.
    If it was put in our Church-I would not attend until it was out.
     
  15. ituttut

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    I chose Jesus, and I am sure you have too. It is very lonely on the strait road, not heavily traveled. Only eight souls got on the boat.

    We in Spirit in the Body believe different things, which things believed will be burned or rewarded.
     
  16. Brother Bob

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    Wonder if they had a tree and presents on the boat???
     
  17. ituttut

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    One who must read all of the bible with understanding of II Timothy 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". In the Body Church we search His Word for what is "righteous".
     
  18. ituttut

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    Hello Christ friend. Only what God allowed. For his faithfulness, God rewarded Noah and all on earth. He gave to Noah something to make His heart glad. Most today will not accept this gift God gave to man. But they will accept what the "Catholic church" has to offer. A Holy Day to worship that, which was never meant to be worshiped. If He wished for us to "remember Him on His Birthday", I honestly believe He would have told us when and how to do it.

    All I know is what He told me. "Remember me as oft as you will with the "bread and the cup".
     

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