Featured What about Liars?

Amazing lack of moral discernment on your part! I would never even think of addressing you like you are addressing me if it was your wife that was the object of your so-called "food" fight. I would come to your defense as that is the only honorable thing to do for a fellow Christian when the circumstance is this stark and clear! Simply Amazing!

 

Back on track. The above scriptures demonstrate clearly that it is not the fleeting thought that these writers are talking about but the engaged thoughts. However, HP's response is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is that this kind of THINKING is regarded as sin BEFORE and apart from any external actions corresponding to it.

 

The only person that I recall this happening to was Dr. Walter. I guess you have more than one account here.

WM

 

I have already admitted to that in a previous post. I have never denied it. When asked previously if I were Dr. Walter I simply avoided answering the question in order to avoid this very thing, so that you and others would not have to be subjected to this stalker. I told DHK that I sincerely did not know there was any rule against having two accounts. I would never have opened another account if I had known that was a rule. I apologized to him and told him that I would take whatever consequences they thought was applicable and necessary. If that is not sufficient then I don't know what else I can say or do to appease you or others. If I had done it intentionally against the rules then I should be banned as that is presumptuous but I did not do it intentionally or presumptuously. I leave it in the hands of the proper authorities to handle as they see fit.

 

Again, back on track. The scriptures I submitted prove that when a person mediates, ponders, pusues thinking contrary to God's revealed will that the very thought is sin even though it is never actualized externally.

 

The way I see it is that no one really knows what goes on in our personal lives on this board and there are people who are full of hate who intentionally try to hurt people. And if you have such a one in your life you need our prayers and support. Though you and I disagree about certain aspects of theology I think its wrong to hold against you unproved accusations that are intended to diminish your credibility. And whether you go by Dr. Walter or Biblicist we are bound (though you might not believe so) together by our faith in Jesus Christ. However, I must admit your online persona of Biblicist is much better to deal with than Dr. Walter as Biblicist does attempt reasoned debate and limits the use inflamitory language where as Dr. Walter gets down right insulting. :smilewinkgrin: So I have no problem with your double account as long as its ok with DHK and the other moderators. You have my sympathy for the disturbance in your life. And you have my prayers.

 

Thank you. I guess I may be more reasonable to debate with under the persona of "The Biblicist" over "Dr. Walter" because the "Dr." brought on more intense attack against me. It was a target that everyone wanted to hit and it fueled more antagonism as stepping on a "Dr." lifts up the attacker to a higher level.

 

I agree. However, as we can see God's warning to Cain

That Cain was pondering sin however there is a consumation in the actual commission of that sin. Ie. The action completes the thoughts or consumates the sin. And the opposite for faith is just as real. Transform by the renewing of our minds then when we act its the consumation of that faith the completion of it. As James points out.

 

The problem here is that the thought is a complete sin in and of itself without the external exericse, as Jesus makes clear in the interpretation of the prohibition of adultery. So your application comes short.

 

Not really. I agree that the thought is a complete sin which seperates us from God. However, there is also the consumation of the sin as we can see in God's statement to Cain. The reason this is so is that in any activity there is a progression thought, vocalization, and action. God indicated that Cain could overcome the sin before he committed it if he dealt with the thought of it. And note there is hyperbole in his statement. As he takes the Law one step further. It has been said do not commit adultry but I say anyone who looks at a woman with lust is guilty of it with her in his heart. Then right after he says If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. So there is a sense in this passage that sin begins in the heart or mind but is consumated in action.

 

I don't disagree with you entirely. However, The thought is not the action just as justifying faith is not faithfulness or sanctifying faith.

 

The following passages do not refer to FLEETING thoughts but thoughts not resisted which embrace evil IMAGINATIONS! However, such IMAGINATIONS are "evil" and "sin" regardless if they are acted out in the manifest life or not. Saved people are no more imune from "evil thoughts" as lost people. Indeed, insomuch that Jesus could actually tell an apostles "get thee behind me Satan."


Mt. 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Mt. 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Ge 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Ge 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Pr 24:9 The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Notice Genesis 6:5 describes the whole mindset of man as "EVIL CONTINUALLY" and that is the cause of "the wickedness of man was great in the earth." This describes the MORAL STATE OF THEIR MINDS AND HEARTS.

Notice that Gen. 8:21 describes a characteristic MIND SET "from his youth" until his manhood. This is a characterization of man AFTER the flood and man IN GENERAL! Depraved nature.

 

Sin is defined as coming "short of the glory of God" - Rom. 6:23

Sin is defined as transgessing the Law - 1 Jn. 4:6

It is God's command to Christians that:

1 Cor. 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

This speaks to YOUR MOTIVE behind all you think, say and do.

2 Cor. 10:5 commands Christians to bring "EVERY THOUGHT" into obedience to Christ.

Hence, If your MOTIVE is not for the glory of God behind EVERYTHING YOU THINK AND DO it is sin, especially your thoughts as all your actions are derived from thoughts.


Ps 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.

Ps 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?

Ec 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.


Moriah and HP do you consider yourselves to be "just" men who "doeth good"?

 

Since everyone has lied at least once, the question for the thread is the wrong question. If one is a habitual liar as part of a life style that is without Christ, no they are not going to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You either are saved or lost. The specific sin has nothing to do with it. One who lives a habitual life of unrepentant sin is obviously lost. The thread is almost worded the way a Pharisee would judge someone.

 

Quite true! However, I think the intent of the thread was to make an accusation against those whom the writer believed were perverting either his language or the Bible.

My point, is to demonstrate all men are liars whether saved or lost as that attribute and all other sins of "the flesh" are still inherent in the fallen nature or the law of indwelling sin existing in the PERSON of the saved. The only difference is Christ and a new nature that strives against sin but never acheives sinless perfection while in this body.

 

I agree, and from an everyday standpoint, the difference is clear. A person without Christ will sin (lie in this case) habitually, and without remorse, never missing a beat. The person who sins with Christ, is immediately convicted by the Holy Spirit, confesses and repents, is forgiven and goes on, learning to do better next time.

 

I beleive they are immediately convicted by the Holy Spirit but they do not always immediately confess and repent as in the case of David with Uriah and Bathsheba. God had to send a prophet to Him in order to bring him to repentance. Psalms 34 demonstrates that not even chastening by God brought "immediate" repentance.