What about the nature of version selections

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Ken4JC, May 4, 2004.

  1. Ken4JC

    Ken4JC
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    For this point given ||
    One. I would like to hold to the English language common usage of the USA with respect to avoid the slang of culture as I will confess that my study of other languages is limited to the box that they were given in and agreement on the nature of other languages would give this question no real point of communication. So to keep it in light of the scope of our common human understanding can we agree to use a collage level dictionary, If you will identify your source I will make a reasonable purchase to keep on the same page as a given to address this question.
    Two. As it is forbidden to take any favorable light to the KJV, I would request that for the sake of the strict position of moderators (stated but never enforced) that the KJV not be use in this topic. I make reference to the clear mandate of the ‘What is KJVO’.
    Three. My goal in this question is to find out what perception you hold and the foundation of that perception.

    The First Question then is what is Truth?
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    1. John 15:26 (HCSB):

    "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send
    to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth
    who proceeds from the Father--He will
    testify about Me"
     
  3. Ken4JC

    Ken4JC
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    Thank you for your kind quote from your holy book, may I ask then, why is this truth?
     
  4. skanwmatos

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    Out standing! I believe the first purchase by a serious student of the bible should be a good concordance/lexicon. There are several very good ones in print, but as most electronic media today, as well as many lexicons, are geared to the numbers found in Strong's Concordance I highly recommend "The Strongest Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible" as edited by John Kohlenberger and James Swanson." It can be purchased from Amazon.com for only $13.95. It is the very best book for the money I can think of. You can find it here http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0310259088/qid=1083691061/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-4278061-2096928?v=glance&s=books
    I don't know where you got that little tidbit of information, but it is so wrong it is almost laughable! Most of the posters see the KJV in favorable light, and some of us hold it in such high esteem that it is our only bible of choice. Please, don't engage in such hyperbole as it only serves to make your arguments seem silly and uninformed.
    That question is a two edged sword. Remember Pilate, and his question in John 18:38?

    As for me, that answer is simple, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." John 17:17. If you disagree with that we have no common ground for discussion.
     
  5. robycop3

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    First, the trainload of pro-KJVOnliism posts shows that they are NOT stifled, even though they're dissected & proven wrong by people such as I. Where YOU blew it was by coming in here waging an ad-hominem attack. Let me assure you that the moderators wouldn't allow me to post in such a manner, and as a "veteran" of this group who should know better, they'd prolly immediately suspend me.

    Next, I do not believe God is limited to any one text, manuscript, family of manuscripts, or any one translation made from any of them. The fact that God chose not to preserve the very originals of any scripture, at least here on earth, should tell something to those who arbitrarily pick n choose from among the available material as the Onlyists(any one version) do.
     
  6. Phillip

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    Amen....and Amen, skanwmatos!
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    I have trouble typing (neuropathy in hands) and sometimes mix up letters or hits uppercase by mistake.

    But have to laugh at our Urbana friend (Go Illini) when he suggests getting a "collage" level dictionary!

    Figure it is a typo (since no student in college would so write, right?) but it made me chuckle.

    AND

    as one of the Moderator's here, I laughed at the "do not use the KJV" request.

    II Tim 2:4 AV1611 gives a subtle aspect of truth by contrasting it: "And they shall turne away their eares from the trueth, and shall be turned vnto fables."

    Trueth v Fables. We have lots of fables here on the BB Versions Forum, for when asked for PROOF, they have none but the words of men!
     
  8. skanwmatos

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    Col·lage (k½-läzh“, k…-) n. 1.a. An artistic composition of materials and objects pasted over a surface, often with unifying lines and color. b. The art of creating such compositions. 2. An assemblage of diverse elements. --col·lage v. col·laged, col·lag·ing, col·lages. --tr. 1. To paste (diverse materials) over a surface, thereby creating an artistic product. --intr. To create such an artistic product. --col·lag“ist n.

    This is really good! And this guy wants to discuss academic things such as grammar, syntax, and translation? :D :D :D :D
     
  9. Phillip

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    Skanwmatos, you talked me into it. I just ordered the Stronger Strong's that you provided a link to. That is a good price for over 1700 pages. Now, I have to WAIT until it gets here. [​IMG]
     
  10. skanwmatos

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    It is an excellent resource! It identifies the ketiv/qere pairs in the OT text and tells how the text reads and how the marginal correction reads. That alone is worth the price of the book.

    It also corrects Strong's root fallacy, not to mention gives us the words that Strong left out or erred in identifying the Greek word they were translated from.
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    Thank you for your kind quote from your holy book, may I ask then, why is this truth? </font>[/QUOTE]You are welcome.

    I know the author of my holy book personally.
    I know the Father personally.
    I know the Counselor personally.
    The Spirit of truth testifies truth
    about Jesus. Jesus saved me personally.

    Yes, Jesus loves me.
    Yes, Jesus loves me.
    Yes, Jesus loves me,
    My HCSB (holy book) tells me so.
     
  12. Trotter

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    Ken4JC,

    Save me some time.

    What is your point? I hate these singular question arguements...my wife uses them on me to pin me down on her points!

    Give us your whole arguement, without all the fancy footwork and requirements, and let's see where it goes.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  13. Ken4JC

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    Out standing! I believe the first purchase by a serious student of the bible should be a good concordance/lexicon. There are several very good ones in print, but as most electronic media today, as well as many lexicons, are geared to the numbers found in Strong's Concordance I highly recommend "The Strongest Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible" as edited by John Kohlenberger and James Swanson." It can be purchased from Amazon.com for only $13.95. It is the very best book for the money I can think of. You can find it here http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0310259088/qid=1083691061/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-4278061-2096928?v=glance&s=books
    I don't know where you got that little tidbit of information, but it is so wrong it is almost laughable! Most of the posters see the KJV in favorable light, and some of us hold it in such high esteem that it is our only bible of choice. Please, don't engage in such hyperbole as it only serves to make your arguments seem silly and uninformed.
    That question is a two edged sword. Remember Pilate, and his question in John 18:38?

    As for me, that answer is simple, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." John 17:17. If you disagree with that we have no common ground for discussion.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you so much for your kind reply.

    I have a Strongs KJV but this is a forbidden part of this debate given the parameters of the question stated, you see if you look at the statement I was speaking of an American collage level dictionary like ‘Webster’s II New Riverside Dictionary’ or similar levels of common language devices in stock at most department stores for school supply.

    You are right in you identification of this question as two edged, I could quote from my holy book on this but this is forbidden as it may offend this organization.

    What is "thy word" and how or what rule do you apply to identify “thy word” as truth?
     
  14. Ken4JC

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    Thank you for your off topic reply, have a nice day.
     
  15. Ken4JC

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    As moderator, I bow to your hi level of observation and thank you for your off topic reply - have a nice day.
     
  16. Ken4JC

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    Thank you for your kind reply, I can not do as you request as you see the gang is already getting ready to roast me an avoid the point by picking a fight and not debating.
    I am replying to this in the order given. :D
     
  17. Ed Edwards

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    here is an example of truth - NOT!
    -----------------------------------
    On a Bulletin board that says:

    This is an independent, fundamental Baptist
    discussion board that
    accepts the King James Bible (AV 1611) as
    the perfect word of God
    and the final authority in all matters
    of faith and practice.


    I posted this:

    Romanes X:9 (KJV1611):

    That if thou shalt confesse with
    thy mouth the Lord Iesus, and shalt
    beleeue in thing heart, that God hath
    raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saued.


    It was edited out with this note:

    "Note: Quotations from all other Bibles deleted
    by the administrator."

    The quote of the same verse from KJV1873 was
    allowed to remain.

    Tee hee, a KJB1611 site that
    doesn't accept quotes from
    the KJV1611. Tee hee.
    -----------------------------------
    And here is what was posted from the
    administrator of that site
    on a neutral site where the above appeared:
    -----------------------------------

    Dear Mr. Edwards,

    Laugh now while you have the chance.
    You came to our discussion board knowing
    our stand on the King James Bible and
    yet you decided to stir up a little trouble.
    You quoted Romans 10:9 from many different
    bible versions trying to prove that
    they all stated the same thing.
    In the middle you used King James Bibles
    from 1611, 1769, and 1873 trying to
    make it look like they were all different.
    The deletion was to get rid of your redundancy
    as well as your quotes from modern versions.
    So laugh all you want to because
    I am banning you from our board.

    /name surpressed/
    -----------------------------------

    Tee hee, a KJB1611 site that
    bans KJV1611 quoters ???
     
  18. Ken4JC

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    You kindness and Christ like reply overwhelms me, I must retire you have purchase this debate by clear love and truth. As I search the width and deep consideration of your reply my hart is torn whether to go back to the Church of Satan or keep on serving the one True God. But you know the truth, and your truth shall serve as a rock (Mt 18:6) before your lord (John 8:44) as your feet are so swift to shed blood (Pr 1:14-17) I think I will chose the LORD, and thank you for providing me with such choice selections of your open pit of deceit and hate. God dose love you and is calling us to His love in a very clear way at times the desire to debate is lost in the hollow of a lack of real foundation or people who care for and seek truth. One point has been made very correctly we have no common ground to speak from. That point speaks volumes to the fact that we are in two different worlds and two different worldviews. Therefore I would ask you to look at who you have chosen to side with and to what end? This is a rhetorical question I do not expect a reply nor desire one. Have a nice day, for after death is the Judgment. :D
     
  19. Ed Edwards

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    To Brother Skanwmatos it is said:
    Interesting things said to the most KJVO person who has posted
    more than 20 posts here. Oh well,
    i better stick to posting scripture:

    The New King James Version

    2 Peter 2:10 (nKJV):
    and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,

    Yes, i consider Brother Skanwmatos a dignitary
    here in this Forum of "those who are
    like-minded and are in the unity
    of the Spirit of Truth concerning this issue".
     
  20. robycop3

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    Ken4JC:Thank you for your off topic reply, have a nice day.

    How was my reply off topic? I pointed out that your comments about any pro-KJV talk here being verboten was wrong. I stand by that statement with the undeniable evidence found throughout this forum.

    And you asked, "What is truth?" I assumed you meant the truth about what we believe about BVs, so I expressed my opinion, Maybe it's not what you wanted to "hear", but it IS the truth that what I typed is my opinion.

    Have whatever kinda day you wish.
     

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