What About Those Who Have Never Heard the Gospel?

You say, "through no fault of their own." I have two responses:

1) It is very much their fault, for rejecting what creation is screaming to them. This is what Romans 1 teaches.

2) Sin has consequences, some of which are your offspring, to the 3rd & 4th generation, will suffer for your decisions - including leading them away from God. (Ex. 20:4, Ex 34:7, Num. 14:18, Deut. 5:9) Leadership has responsibility and accountability. Parenting is leadership. Here is more from Romans 1, which bears this progression out.

BTW, any of the above affected people, may at any time, recognize the true Creator from what He has revealed about Himself, via the Creation - hear about Jesus, and get saved.

It is apparent to me that you have your own answer to this question - and probably would not have posted it without one. So, pray tell, I am anxious, - what is your answer to the question you posted?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro K View Post
Titus 2:11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men"

John 1:9 "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world"

So it is your position that every person without exception has heard the gospel of Jesus Christ?

That every human being without exception has had the gospel preached to them?


I only gave God's position by his Word, not mine!!!! Let us know your position
by supporting it with God's Word.

 

ACTS 17:
19: And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?

Since the death of Christ was not that far in the past; its concievable that they had not heard. There has been a time in everyone's life where they have not heard; BUT they will hear.(John 1:9 Titus 2:11) just as the time had come for these to hear.


28. "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."

One could use this statement: "your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." to say that they had the info and would have known it.

 

Does anyone know what this fella is talking about?

 

Perhaps you don't see it this way - but I think your point could be considered a corollary or "pinpoint" of mine. You start out this post essentially in lockstep with me - then diverge to a more specific aspect of "all" that God has revealed to us thru His creation - including the innate sense of right, wrong, and judgment - that we are created with. Observing the human condition, or human creation, if you will, and our own internal senses, "show" this "invisible" aspect of the Creator.

Apparently, you do not see it this way - but I think I am in total agreement with you. Romans 2, which you reference, is an extension and/or elaboration of Romans 1, which I reference. It is part of the same conversation or discourse, if you will. I am emphasizing the broad overview - and you the more narrow aspect of "heart law." Essentially "same same" to me. Although, I very much like the way you put it! :thumbs:

I do not understand why you don't say the same thing - we are "same same" on this point. This is why in my initial post in this thread, I referenced that you had "hit on it."

 

Got me on this one!

 

This fella will tell you, with all due respects once again, what this fella is talking about.


First: Not all who are in heaven heard the gospel as we heard it here who are on earth.
Enoch did not know who Jesus Christ is, neither did he understand in his time before God took him without passing through death what Jesus Christ was going to do, where, and why.
The same goes for Adam, Eve, Abel, Seth, Methuselah, those in the Hebrew hall of faith, Samson, Solomon, Job, nor ANY of the prophets, major or minor, save maybe Isaiah, who used the name Immanuel.
They did not hear the gospel as you heard it, as I heard it, as you preach it, as many of those on this board preach it, as Paul described it in 1 Corinthians 15:3-5, to wit " 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received , how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried , and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:".

Second: All who are in heaven are there not because they believed the gospel, or obeyed it, or revered it but because the subject and object of the gospel, Jesus Christ, shed His own blood willingly, knowingly, and purposefully, in obedience to the desires of His Father and therefore redeemed and atoned for the sins of His people, independent of their faith, belief, or reception of the gospel, and dependent only on His will, knowledge of them, and love for them, therefore, to the question: what about those who have never heard the gospel, my answer is : well, what about them ?

 

But they knew of a redeemer who would shed His blood for their sin. Then they looked forward to the redeemer. Now we look back. This is obvious not sure what about it you are missing. You seem to be bordering on the same universalism Willard does.

 

Are you kidding? Seriously, Are you kidding?????

Moses was the first author of written Scripture. Beside this direct statement in Luke 24, from Christ Himself, that all the scriptures point to and prophecy about Him, we add all the other statements from Jesus, Peter, Paul, Luke, etc., that say this was done to fulfill...[O.T. prophecy]. The N.T. is replete with these.

Peter's great sermon on the day of Pentecost was all about proving that Jesus was/is the prophesied about "anointed one" or Christ. Peter even references prophesies from Joel and David in this sermon. Jesus was the prophesied Son of David. He was the Seed of Abraham, and Seed of Eve, come to crush the serpent's head. That's right, Eve was given prophecy to believe in about Jesus (Gen. 3:15). It's hard to go any farther back than that to see if there was anything about Jesus to believe in.

 

Tom, this whole debate is like the arguments for and against the free will of man to choose the gospel or reject it.

We run into God-talk and Man-talk. The same doctrine is understood in human terms and heavenly talk.

We do the same with God's absolute sovereignty, failing to appreciate the variations within the confines of God's absolute sovereignty, such as His permissive will, which allows man to move and have his will, under the confines of God's absolute sovereignty. And so we can talk about man's free will,,,,,,,but, does he? I move my left hand in absolute freedom until God says move my right hand.

I am saved from all eternity under the blood of Jesus. In human terms, I must believe on the Lord Jesus to be saved. Then, how can a corpse (dead in sins and trespasses) react except God make the first move of conversion?

You see the confusion possible when we fail to divide the process of salvation into divine side and human side.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Here's the problem with the idea that man will follow the little light God gave them in nature and He will give them more light: John 3:19-21 - "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." Now, consider this. Light is come into the world. Here is the light of the world, the greatest light, Jesus Christ. There is a problem. Men loved darkness rather than light. Why? Because their deeds were evil. For this reason, they will not come to the light, les their deeds should be reproved. Man, naturally, does not like the light, will not come to the light. So then the question is, who will come to the light? Who will love the light? Well the answer is those that doeth truth. Not those that will do truth, those that currently do truth. In coming to the light, something is manifested about these people who doeth truth and love the light. What is it? That their works are wrought in God. Not will be wrought in God, but currently are wrought in God. So we see the great truth that there are two classes of people in this world. There are those that doeth evil and hate the light, and thus won't come to it. And there are those that doeth truth, whose works are wrought in God, and they love the light and will come to the light.

The second people are those who come to and believe in Christ. We see that before they came to Christ, their works were already wrought in God. They weren't doing evil when they came to Christ, they weren't hating the light. This is key because man naturally is the enemy of God. The carnal mind, the unregenerate mind of man, is at emnity with God, and hates Him and His law. Thus we must conclude a great change has already taken place in these people who love the light and come to Jesus Christ. No longer are they at emnity with God. No longer are they opposed to God. Instead, God has changed their hearts, taught them to fear and love Him, written His laws in their hearts and minds, and thus their works are wrought in God. Then they, when presented with the light, love it and come to it. This isn't done through nature. Nature doesn't manifest Jesus Christ. Nature doesn't declare what great things Jesus has done for His people. What does? The gospel. When the gospel is preached to one who loves the light, whose works are wrought in God, then that person is disposed to come to the light that is may be manifested what they already are - a born again child of God. The gospel is a manifester, not a regenerator.

 

Some people follow their own sense of goodness in life, but nothing religious. These are some of the most difficult to reach wih the gospel. They don't see anything evil in their lives, and there isn't. They are good people in the sense of society's definition of goodness. These people, too have been convicted of their sinful nature and come to Christ in salvation. Someof the wicked people think they have gone beyond redemption, and become equally difficult to reach.

This only proves the act of God in redemption. If God does not move first upon the soul of man, there is absolutely no hope.

Then there is our role. We are sent to witness; we are sent to preach the gospel; we are directed to teach truth; and, we are instructed to live the life.

This is the truth of God's word.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Amen.

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jn 1:47

Imagine that. No guile in this man, and that before he even met Christ. Wonder how that happened?

But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. Jn 3:21

Imagine that. These folks have works that have been wrought in God, and that before they ever came to the light. Wonder how that happened?

This is how it happens:
The wind bloweth where it will...... so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Jn 3:8

The Spirit is not constrained to the written word or to any church; neither is He conveyed by the preacher or the preaching. He knows those that are His, and He blows where He wills.

The gospel does not convey life and immortality, it tells of it and rings true in the hearts of His children and makes them happy like good news should:
but hath now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2 Tim 1:10

10 For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55

That village in Africa that hasn't had the gospel preached there since 600 years ago. What's the matter? It didn't stick the first time around? Why would that be?

 

preach it, brother !!!!:thumbsup:

 

We have a Christian command under the New Covenant to preach the Gospel. But, one does not go to Hell because they have not heard the Gospel. Scripture says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and that the wages of sin is death. They go to Hell because their nature is corrupt, depraved, and morally wicked against God. They go to Hell because they love their sin.

I would that all would hear the message in this video, and that God would receive the glory in the true knowledge of the Church of evangelism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec5dJHtMTSg