What all did the Father give to Jesus?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Yelsew, Sep 8, 2003.

  1. Yelsew

    Yelsew
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    [John 6:39] Now the will of him who sent me is that I should lose nothing of all that he has given to me, but that I should raise it up on the last day.

    What did the Father Give Jesus?

    Calvinists seem to want to limit this to that ever nebulous, "the elect", but just what is included in "all that he has (past tense, an already accomplished event) given me"?
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    There is nothing really "nebulous" about the elect. All that the Father has given is a reference to those to whom the Father has given faith to believe (cf 1 Thess 1:4; 2 Thess 2:13; John 6:64-65; John 6:37; Phil 1:29;etc, etc, etc,). Again, this is not new. We have been through this a thousand times before. The teaching of John 6, taken in context without isolating favorite verses, indicates that there are two groups: Those who the Father gives and the rest. Those whom the Father gives will come, will not be cast out, and will be raised up at the last day. It takes a devoted allegiance to a position to avoid the teaching of this passage.

    What brings this question up?
     
  3. Yelsew

    Yelsew
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    Two ideas expressed, one is the Father Given, the other is those who come in Faith.

    Jesus knew Judas Ascariot was not a believer and that Judas would betray him. Judas was used of God to betray Jesus to the "establishment religious leaders". Maybe, Judas was the only one the Father gave to Jesus and for the stated purpose. Jesus knows who believes in him and who does not. When one believes, that one is "marked" by belief. The "mark" of belief is what sanctifies the sheep from the goats.

    Presumes that there has been knowledge of election previously given to the author of this scripture. What is that knowledge, and where in Scripture is it revealed?

    The opposite of "would not accept", is "do accept", and acceptance is human belief a matter of human choice.

    Through your hearing ('your' is implied) the gospel that was given as a call, you now claim as your own glory that of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    [Phil 1:27-30] But you must always behave in a way that is worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come to you and see for myself or whether I only hear all about you from a distance, I shall find that you are standing firm and united in spirit, battling, as a team with a single aim, for the faith of the gospel,[28] undismayed by any of your opponents. This will be a clear sign, for them that they are to be lost, and for you that you are to be saved. [29] This comes from God, for you have been granted the privilege for Christ's sake not only of believing in him but of suffering for him as well;[30] you are fighting the same battle which you saw me fighting for him and which you hear I am fighting still.[/quote]Granted the privilege. Does that mean by Grace, saved through faith?

    So, does any of this mean, "ONLY" that which the Father gives to the Son can have faith, or ONLY those will be able to have faith? If yes, where does it say so?

    By the way the question is valid, What did the Father give the Son? It is imperitive that some definition is provided in order to understand what Calvinsts say they believe.
     

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