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Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Oct 21, 2013.
What would they divide over?
I do not believe in partial depravity. I hold to total depravity
I do not believe that God chooses the elect based on knowing who will believe
I do not believe salvation can be lost.
This certainly needs to be fleshed out on this board so that cals will stop misusing the terms.
Thanks for your reply!
Also important to 'flesh out" that in may ways, Arms stand theological closer to cals than Non cals do!
Huh? Arminians are non-Calvinists.
Not hardly, and non cals cannot be narrowed down to one system or another.
All Arms are non cals but not all non cals are arms.
You are right. In the Christian world non-Calvinists are also Semi-Pelagians (virtually the same as Arminian)and Amyraldians. But it is a given that the term non-Cal has the same meaning as Arminian --and not just on the BB.
It is a given because cals need a pejorative to demonize those they disagree with. While not all, by and large the calvinists of today have become so militant and hateful that they just do not seem to know any better or even care. Which is displayed on this board daily. I can assure the the humility they clain God has given them is absent. So what ever given cals want to be the norm falls far short of the reality given or otherwise.
I'm wondering the same.
Here's a layout of what I believe:
-Salvation is by grace, through faith
-Salvation cannot be attained through works or any effort on my part
-Salvation comes when I accept Jesus' gift of salvation and believe on Him
-Works are EVIDENCE of salvation, rather than a requirement
-Although I cannot fall from salvation or go to hell since Jesus' sacrifice paid for all of my sins, I can get out of God's will and be cut off from His blessings based on my actions and disobedience. I still need to regularly confess my sins and ask for forgiveness, as well as abandon said sins, in order to stay in God's will.
So based on that, what am I?
Not enough information. An acid test would be what you believe to be the moment you were regenerated. When you accepted Christ were you regenerated?
You are a Calarmian.
Other than the BB I hadn't heard that non-Cal means Arminian. I'd be interested to learn more about how Arminianism came to mean any theological that disagrees with Calvinism - especially since it is of Calvinistic trajectory while many non-Cals are not - if you have the time. And last I heard Amyraldianism is Calvinism, perhaps closer to pre-Beza Calvinism but more than merely a trajectory of the system.
I was very young when I accepted Christ, and to be honest I don't remember much about it other than the one moment where I was praying with the pastor at the time. That was when, I presume, I began to understand the idea of salvation and Jesus' sacrifice and when I decided I wanted that in my life. My mom said she she some changes in my life and I got more interested in learning about the Bible and stuff...but I was just a kid, y'know?
Regenerated....hm, not quite used to that terminology. Well, the real spiritual growth for me happened a few years ago, in my late teens. I do believe I was saved before then, but I didn't make much effort on growing even closer to God until that point in time.
Why would you think that the term Arminian is a pejorative,but the term Calvinist is not? There are a number on this board who call themselves Arminians openly or at least say they are in sympathy with the system called Arminianism.
Consistency is not a hallmark of most non-Calvinists though. I know you don't like to be pigeon-holed --but if the shoe fits...
Or the other,more popular one --if it looks like a duck,walks like a duck,sounds like a duck --more than likely it is indeed a duck.
A person is going to be identified with their soteriological views. According to historical theology --you are not in a brand new category.
There are variations within Calvinism and there are variations within Arminianism. Gone are the days when an Arminian can deny they are Arminian because they adhere to OSAS.
Calvinist/Reformed believe it is absolutely impossible for the natural man to believe the gospel. That man must be supernaturally regenerated (born again) BEFORE he can be willing or have the ability to believe.
Arminian/Non-Calvinists believe man has the ability to believe the gospel and that regeneration (born again) occurs AFTER believing on Jesus.
One of the most devious tactics on BB is to falsely define what someone else believes. Happens all the time by Cals and non-Cals. So Rippon, Lutherans, Catholics, Episcopalians are Arminians, since they are non-Cals?
Well good for them. That ha nothing to do with anyone else.
That is only true if you try to fit all non cals into the same category. And the fact that you militant cals fight so hard to maintian your pejorative only further proves what it is.
Uh no except by militant cals
Nothing true about that however there is more differences than just that one single issue.
I guess I believe the latter, but my childhood church also taught that the Holy Spirit does have to "draw you", basically invite you, first. Not sure if that's the same.
And that church held to OSAS, as do I, although I don't attend there anymore.
OK, both sides believe you must be drawn. Calvinist/Reformed believe you must be drawn by Irresistible Grace to be regenerated. You cannot refuse this drawing, you will be irresistibly drawn to Jesus. Perhaps a better way to put it is that you will irresistibly be made willing to accept Jesus. Calvinists will object if you say God regenerates a person against their will.
Arminians/non-Cals also believe you must be drawn to Jesus, but it is not irresistible, you can resist the Holy Spirit, even reject Him.
Arminians GENERALLY believe you can lose salvation, Non-Calvinists do not believe you can lose salvation. That is why most here will reject being called an Arminian, almost everyone here (but not all) believes once saved, always saved.