What Are main Differences between Arms and Non cals?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Oct 21, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,126
    Likes Received:
    52
    What would they divide over?
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,386
    Likes Received:
    790
    I do not believe in partial depravity. I hold to total depravity


    I do not believe that God chooses the elect based on knowing who will believe


    I do not believe salvation can be lost.


    This certainly needs to be fleshed out on this board so that cals will stop misusing the terms.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Oct 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2013
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,126
    Likes Received:
    52
    Thanks for your reply!

    Also important to 'flesh out" that in may ways, Arms stand theological closer to cals than Non cals do!
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Huh? Arminians are non-Calvinists.
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,386
    Likes Received:
    790
    Not hardly, and non cals cannot be narrowed down to one system or another.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,386
    Likes Received:
    790
    All Arms are non cals but not all non cals are arms.
     
  7. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,270
    Likes Received:
    619
  8. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    You are right. In the Christian world non-Calvinists are also Semi-Pelagians (virtually the same as Arminian)and Amyraldians. But it is a given that the term non-Cal has the same meaning as Arminian --and not just on the BB.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,386
    Likes Received:
    790
    It is a given because cals need a pejorative to demonize those they disagree with. While not all, by and large the calvinists of today have become so militant and hateful that they just do not seem to know any better or even care. Which is displayed on this board daily. I can assure the the humility they clain God has given them is absent. So what ever given cals want to be the norm falls far short of the reality given or otherwise.
     
  10. questdriven

    questdriven
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes Received:
    33
    I'm wondering the same.

    Here's a layout of what I believe:
    -Salvation is by grace, through faith
    -Salvation cannot be attained through works or any effort on my part
    -Salvation comes when I accept Jesus' gift of salvation and believe on Him
    -Works are EVIDENCE of salvation, rather than a requirement
    -Although I cannot fall from salvation or go to hell since Jesus' sacrifice paid for all of my sins, I can get out of God's will and be cut off from His blessings based on my actions and disobedience. I still need to regularly confess my sins and ask for forgiveness, as well as abandon said sins, in order to stay in God's will.

    So based on that, what am I?
     
  11. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,270
    Likes Received:
    619
    Not enough information. An acid test would be what you believe to be the moment you were regenerated. When you accepted Christ were you regenerated?
     
  12. Winman

    Winman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are a Calarmian.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,982
    Likes Received:
    373
    Other than the BB I hadn't heard that non-Cal means Arminian. I'd be interested to learn more about how Arminianism came to mean any theological that disagrees with Calvinism - especially since it is of Calvinistic trajectory while many non-Cals are not - if you have the time. And last I heard Amyraldianism is Calvinism, perhaps closer to pre-Beza Calvinism but more than merely a trajectory of the system.
     
  14. questdriven

    questdriven
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes Received:
    33
    I was very young when I accepted Christ, and to be honest I don't remember much about it other than the one moment where I was praying with the pastor at the time. That was when, I presume, I began to understand the idea of salvation and Jesus' sacrifice and when I decided I wanted that in my life. My mom said she she some changes in my life and I got more interested in learning about the Bible and stuff...but I was just a kid, y'know?

    Regenerated....hm, not quite used to that terminology. Well, the real spiritual growth for me happened a few years ago, in my late teens. I do believe I was saved before then, but I didn't make much effort on growing even closer to God until that point in time.
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Why would you think that the term Arminian is a pejorative,but the term Calvinist is not? There are a number on this board who call themselves Arminians openly or at least say they are in sympathy with the system called Arminianism.

    Consistency is not a hallmark of most non-Calvinists though. I know you don't like to be pigeon-holed --but if the shoe fits...

    Or the other,more popular one --if it looks like a duck,walks like a duck,sounds like a duck --more than likely it is indeed a duck.

    A person is going to be identified with their soteriological views. According to historical theology --you are not in a brand new category.

    There are variations within Calvinism and there are variations within Arminianism. Gone are the days when an Arminian can deny they are Arminian because they adhere to OSAS.
     
  16. Winman

    Winman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    Calvinist/Reformed believe it is absolutely impossible for the natural man to believe the gospel. That man must be supernaturally regenerated (born again) BEFORE he can be willing or have the ability to believe.

    Arminian/Non-Calvinists believe man has the ability to believe the gospel and that regeneration (born again) occurs AFTER believing on Jesus.
     
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,270
    Likes Received:
    619
    One of the most devious tactics on BB is to falsely define what someone else believes. Happens all the time by Cals and non-Cals. So Rippon, Lutherans, Catholics, Episcopalians are Arminians, since they are non-Cals?
     
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,386
    Likes Received:
    790
    Well good for them. That ha nothing to do with anyone else.

    That is only true if you try to fit all non cals into the same category. And the fact that you militant cals fight so hard to maintian your pejorative only further proves what it is.

    Childishness

    Uh no except by militant cals

    Nothing true about that however there is more differences than just that one single issue.
     
    #18 Revmitchell, Oct 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2013
  19. questdriven

    questdriven
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes Received:
    33
    I guess I believe the latter, but my childhood church also taught that the Holy Spirit does have to "draw you", basically invite you, first. Not sure if that's the same.
    And that church held to OSAS, as do I, although I don't attend there anymore.
     
  20. Winman

    Winman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK, both sides believe you must be drawn. Calvinist/Reformed believe you must be drawn by Irresistible Grace to be regenerated. You cannot refuse this drawing, you will be irresistibly drawn to Jesus. Perhaps a better way to put it is that you will irresistibly be made willing to accept Jesus. Calvinists will object if you say God regenerates a person against their will.

    Arminians/non-Cals also believe you must be drawn to Jesus, but it is not irresistible, you can resist the Holy Spirit, even reject Him.

    Arminians GENERALLY believe you can lose salvation, Non-Calvinists do not believe you can lose salvation. That is why most here will reject being called an Arminian, almost everyone here (but not all) believes once saved, always saved.
     
    #20 Winman, Oct 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2013
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...