Featured What are the Essentials of Christian Faith?

Nope. God chose us 'from the beginning' (2 Thessalonians 2:13) for salvation. The means He uses to bring us to salvation are 'sanctification [setting apart] by the Spirit and belief in the truth.'

 

There could be misunderstandings because of intellectual ability.

HankD

 

if we were chosen before the beginning then you are wrong and the verse you use to prove your point proves you are .

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
MB

 

....or not

 

Whooo boyee! Yahall ain't gonna be happy with me but here goes. First there are rules that must not be violated when reading the scriptures. First and foremost every word in the English Bible is the Word of God period or you are not worshiping the Most High, The Living God of creation. Before the MS puty so many, stinking, scars on my Brain and began shutting down functions I knew all three verses where God promised that He would protect His Holy Word and that not a word would be added nor deleted from the Bible He inspired to be written... Authored!

The two addresses I recall are Duet 4:2 and the other is found at the end of Revelation 22. And when dealing with scripture it must be remembered that the Highlighter had not been invented yet and to highlight something, God would repeat His command somewhere else. God has highlighted the fact that His Word is pure.

This, of course, means that neither the Calvinist nor the Armenian are correct! (I told you, all of you are going to be upset but I have information for all of you to mull over and to study on for understanding.) I am in neither Camp but rather I am a Biblicist... if God said it, I believe it! I believe every single word in the Scriptural Recortd is the God Breathed Gospel truth.

The scriptures, all of them are the truth or I am a fool and I admit it! So I am told all of the time that there are conflicting scriptures in the text, the trouble is that the scriptures are a mystery to the Lost Man. And if you have not been broken by God to the point that you have surrendered every moment of your life to the service of God, I can explain these apparent contradictions and you will not understand it. (2Thes 2:11)

so why am I posting this here? The nature of God is being taken into account, not in the least, here! God is both Omniscient and Omnipotent! So God is without restriction, meaning He is everywhere with everyone, all at the same instant but waiit, wait, a second. It goes much deeper, He is without limit. God was on stage with me in 1989/1990 as I was overcome by the Holy Spirit about six or more thousand years ago, likely, some better.

God created the Time/Space Continuum we live within for our benefit that we can live through this testing he has allowed, see Job. Before God created the first thing He had seen everything we did and would do before we die and either go to Hell to await the Judgement that will send them into the abyss or will go straight into the presence of God.

I pray you all can see what I have learned and want to give away.

 

Why, I ask, do you quote a verse that reads "from the beginning" and then refer to it as supporting "before the beginning?" From the beginning refers to after or since the beginning, not before the beginning.

Now lets turn to the fact that we were chosen in Him before creation, Ephesians 1:4. Was this election corporate or individual? When God chose His Redeemer, before creation, He also chose corporately all those His Redeemer would redeem. Thus we were corporately chosen in Him.

To be chosen through faith in the truth, means we were physically alive, during our lifetime, after we had heard and learned from the Father. To support this, in addition to 2 Thessalonians 2:13, also look at James 2:5 which says God chose those who were "poor to the world, rich in faith...." So the fact we were chosen after we had faith in the truth, is found in several places. Turn to 1 Corinthians 1:26-30. Again God choosing people based on their characteristics. You want more, how about 1 Peter 2:9-10 where we were not a people, had not mercy, but then we became a chosen people who had received mercy.

Anyone who reads scripture objectively knows we do not read between the lines of one verse, and then nullify the plain reading of four others. Spiritual pride does not flow from humility.

 

I agree completely. Combine what you posted with my previous post about God not operating from inside our Time/Space Continuum and I cannot see how folks hold firmly to either of the major positions instead of falling somewhere in the middle.

 

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Yes Sir. Some folks call this sovereign grace. This doctrine has been out there long before Calvin and Arminius.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 

While in large part I agree with that, the fact is (1) that not all Christians have the mental capacity to understand certain things and (2) this would replace salvation by grace with salvation by merit if we assume all Christians will come to a proper understanding.

Key to your statement is "as we study." Not all Christians study. For this reason the Writer of Hebrews rebukes his Hebrew brethren.Many get a weekly dose of the Bible and that is pretty much it. Doesn't mean they are any more or less saved, just as a vast knowledge doesn't mean one is more saved, lol.

Would you mind telling me your understanding of the "Kenosis?"


God bless.

 

Oops, looking at the original post I see that this was indeed addressed to me.

There are many flavors to this doctrine and as is often times the case - disagreement as to what it means.

The Key passage for the kenosis:
Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation (kenoo), and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

One of the standard definitions:

Kenosis: the relinquishment of divine attributes by Jesus Christ in becoming human (a.k.a. The Incarnation).

I like one of the explanations in Kittel's Volume III, page 661 that Jesus Christ in His incarnation "did not exploit His divine form and mode of being but by His decision emptied Himself of it or laid it by taking the form of a servant by becoming man".

In my own words - in the incarnation He did not cease to be God but of His own will did not take advantage of the prerogatives of deity.

Beyond that I don't really want go only because it might start a BB firestorm of which I have decided to never again participate therein.

HankD

 

That would probably be pretty close to how I view it, in that the Son of God did not empty Himself of Deity at all, but rather veiled that Glory with the flesh He took upon Himself. So I agree with how it is phrased above, "did not exploit His divine form and mode of being but by His decision emptied Himself of it," but what follows leaves too much room for the implication His divine form ceased, "or laid it by taking the form of a servant by becoming man".

So in view would be His Glory, rather than His Deity that was "emptied." He remained God at all times.

Where's the fun in that?




God bless.

 

Yes, I agree that's why I was emphatic to say He did not cease to be God.

One has to be careful with Kittel's TDNT - some neo-orthodoxy shows up when they editorialize but for the semantic historical development (both religious and secular) of words, IMO it is excellent.

I purchased my set a couple of centuries ago at Calvary U. and have used it extensively.

HankD