What are your main concerns?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Abiyah, Sep 20, 2002.

  1. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    As an Arminian believer, what are your main
    concerns for Calvinists?

    As a Calvinist believer, what are your main
    concerns for Arminians?
     
  2. KenH

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    That they, actually all of us who are God's children, would come to understand there is no reason for God to save us because of anything we do, say, or think. That God saves us by His grace alone through faith alone in the finished work of Christ alone revealed in Scripture alone to the glory of God alone. [​IMG]

    That they would come to understand that the teaching of many today of cheap grace and easy believism(teaching that arises out of the Arminian system) is resulting in multitudes of people continuing on the road to hell while thinking they are on the road to heaven.

    That they would return to the Biblical basis for understanding man's inability to save himself, for God's saving love, for Christ's accomplished atonement, for God's powerful, overcoming grace, for God's safekeeping of His children. [​IMG]

    Ken

    [ September 20, 2002, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  3. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Ken Hamilton,

    We Arminians also, already believe your first and last paragraphs. Relax.

    As I recall the angels gather the souls and God is the Judge of destinations not Christians.
     
  4. KenH

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    Brother Ray,

    Then I wish that what Arminians put forth as their theology reflected such beliefs. [​IMG]

    Ken
     
  5. Ray Berrian

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    My main concern about Calvinists is that they teach that God selects some for Heaven and places the rest of human beings in Hell, without just cause. If He allegedly can save some why not save everyone. The ones who enter Heaven had an Adamic nature plus their sins of commission also. By sending the majority to Hell He is found to be God of injustice.

    This is why the Word teaches that ‘believing' is not a work or effort bringing about our salvation. Believing places in motion the human will to trust in Christ's saving benefits at the Cross. This is His plan in saving His elect who He knew would and will come since before the foundation of the world was created.
     
  6. KenH

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    I also have a concern that Arminians would realize it their system that teaches a majority end up in hell, not Calvinism.

    I also have a concern that Arminians would realize that the idea of God looking down through the telescope of time to see who would believe makes the sovereign God of the universe into One who reacts to what His creatures do in order to save them, instead of being the One who saves by His good pleasure and purpose because He wills to save them, not because they force Him to because of something they do, say, or think.

    Ken
     
  7. Ray Berrian

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    Ken Hamilton,

    Most people have given up on the idea that they are going to bring in this great and vast everlasting Kingdom of God. Two world wars have convinced most people. Look at our world situation even our own sinful nation. You can't believe that the majority are saved in Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, India and all the Moslem believers in Africa. Be honest with yourself.

    The majority will go to Hell [Matthew 7:13] Does the word 'many' connect with you?
    The minority will go to Heaven [Matthew 7:14] Does the word 'few' resonate in your mind? [​IMG]
     
  8. KenH

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    Brother Ray,

    The verse you cite relates to the time of Christ on this earth and even up until today.

    I am a postmillennialist. Man will not make most of the world believers, but God will by the power of His Holy Spirit as He works in people's lives. [​IMG]

    Also, am I to understand that you believe that young children and babies who die before committing personal sin end up in hell? Do you realize how many young'uns have died in world history and continue to die today through natural means as well as abortion?

    That is something else I wish for Arminians, that they would understand that their system casts babies into hell because these dead babies couldn't "activate their will" to repent and believe.

    What a horrible picture of God's justice and mercy Arminianism does paint. [​IMG]

    May God deliver those trapped in such a theological system by His mercy.

    Ken

    [ September 20, 2002, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  9. Monergist

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    ??? :confused:
     
  10. Ray Berrian

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    Ken Hamilton,

    Misinformation.

    People who are of the Arminian persuasion absolutely do not believe that babies go to Hell because they did not activate their will. Our answer is that King David's son went to Heaven because David said, 'He cannot come to me, but I will go to be with him.' To us this means that the baby went directly to Heaven and one day David would also enter Heaven.

    {As SOME Calvinists have projected} They believe that God has even elected all babies to Heaven and Hell without any explanation on His part. You will find no explanation, in the Word, because God does not administer His Kingdom in this unthinkable way.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  11. KenH

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    Brother Ray,

    You see, God can regenerate a little baby in the womb or a one-year old on her daddy's knee. They are saved the same way that adults are saved.

    Can you say the same about your theological system - Arminianism?

    No, you can't. Your system either has all dead babies in hell or else you have to concoct some other way for babies to go to heaven than the way that adults are saved, for which you have no Scriptural warrant. More Arminian inconsistency.

    It's getting late in Arkansas. [​IMG]
    Ken
     
  12. tyndale1946

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    I want my arminian brethren to realize that the Salvation of Gods children echoed by Job are that our redeemer liveth and that we belong to him is sure and steadfast and can never lose that Eternal Salvation.

    In our daily walk with the Lord we can falter and fall by the way. The Lord is always there to pick us up. We always press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus because there is also daily salvation as we walk with the Lord. We must also work out our own salvation with fear and trembling as being disciples and serving the Lord in the world on our way to glory... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  13. ForumChaplain

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    The bible teaches that Ken. wide is the path that leads to destruction, narrow is the gate that leads to heaven and few there be that find it.

    Did the bible say that?
    Matt 7:13-14
    13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

    14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    KJV

    Oh well, I was in the ball park..
    BTW, the ones that can't find it are not supposed to be looking for it.

    I pray that all Calvinist would just read the bible without their preconceived agenda. Power for God.

    [ September 21, 2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]
     
  14. ScottEmerson

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    A large number of Calvinists believe the same thing, unscripturally, I would maintain.

    Could God not respond in good pleasure? You force an either/or proposition, which is illogical, since there can very well be a third option. What if God wills to save all those who say yes?
     
  15. russell55

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    Did you find out anything at all that you wanted to know, Abiyah? :D
     
  16. Aki

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    my main concern in the calvinistic teaching is their inappropriate emphasis as to why those who go to are are punished so. they say it's because of their sins.

    yet even before their first sin they are already condemned, due to a sin that they did not commit, but Adam did. men sin because they are spiritually dead. their spiritual death is not the result of their sin. it's the other way around. the sins men commit are simply results of their spiritual death.

    without a knowledge of this, inappropriate humility pops up. thus some say, i really deserve to go to hell for what i have done. but the bible says, you are already spiritually dead even at your birth, even before you did anything! indeed, even if you do not commit any sin all your life, you are still dead. your spiritual dead does not depend on what you do.

    then some say, i thank God for saving me. with so many people on earth that deserve condemnation, He chose to die for me (as with the other elects). but the bible says, God condemned everyone by imputing the original sin to everyone. why? because with that, Christ's death will reach everyone! without that imputation, men will actually go straight to hell at their first sin because Christ cannot die for them.

    my main concen about the arminians? i do not have any, for i do not know what Arminians teach. i do not even know if i am one.
     
  17. KenH

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    I don't know about Abiyah but I have learned that if we said the sky is blue and the basis is Calvinistic, then the Arminians would say it wasn't blue. [​IMG]

    Ken
     
  18. Abiyah

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    Hi! 8o) Not really, but I thought I would. I thought
    this particular question would bring me to a bit
    more of an understanding of both ideas. 8o)

    Personally, I am still confused re both doctrines.
    I had thought that I was in a fairly nornal Armini-
    anism doctrine when I was a member of thatt
    church and recently learned that it was a far-right
    concept of Arminianism rather than the norm.

    Now that I am in somewhat of an agreement wiith
    Calvinism, I find that I do not believe it all.

    I was hoping that the question might settle some
    things in my own mind through the answers, but
    it does not. 8o) Oh well! Our God knows the
    answers, and that is the most important thing. I
    can rest in Him until I learn the human philosophy.
     
  19. ForumChaplain

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    I don't know about Abiyah but I have learned that if we said the sky is blue and the basis is Calvinistic, then the Arminians would say it wasn't blue. [​IMG]

    Ken
    </font>[/QUOTE]And even if they are telling the truth, you will still not believe. We said it, does not make it true..

    The single largest problem with Calvinism is this false doctrine of individual election. And the real problem is not that it is false because it is calvinistic. Few, if any are out to persecute calvinism. It is false because it is false...
     
  20. KenH

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    I've already explained why I believe Scripturally more will be saved than lost - including babies. [​IMG] But I understand that when one has a man-based salvation system that one would believe that more people are lost than saved.

    Ken [​IMG]

    [ September 21, 2002, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     

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