What are your thoughts on Salvation and those who haven't heard the Gospel ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by TomLaPalm, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. TomLaPalm

    TomLaPalm
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    1Jo 5:12

    He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

    God put my ancestors in a place and time where the never had a chance to hear of Jesus ?
    What is their fate ? Is God just in this?

    I am sure this has been discussed before.
     
  2. kyredneck

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    49 But this multitude that knoweth not the gospel are accursed. Jn 7
     
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  3. TomLaPalm

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    How do we accept these type of verses with God placing then in a position not to be able to hear?
     
  4. kyredneck

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    Tom, go read that passage in your Bible. I'm being facetious in order to make a point.
     
  5. Alcott

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    My thought: they need to hear it.
     
  6. TomLaPalm

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    I missed the joke, so I missed your point as well, could you elaborate further?

    that statement was made by self righteous Pharisees, but this one is not
    1Jo 5:12

    He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life
     
  7. TomLaPalm

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    Some of my ancestors were live without hearing of Jesus nor Israel or the Old World
    What abou them?
     
  8. kyredneck

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    Well it wasn't intended as a joke. The evangelicals hold to the gospel just as those Pharisees did to their law. If one doesn't know either they're bound for hell. Pharisees believed the law was the key to going to heaven, evangelicals believe the gospel is the key to going to heaven.

    Yea, "The Spirit where He willeth doth blow". The gospel doesn't impart life and immortality, it tells of it.

    No mention of the gospel there.
     
  9. kyredneck

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    What's your opinion of all the nations during the OT that were not included in the Mosaic Covenant? They didn't have the law, they never heard the law. Did they all go to hell? Did only Jews go to heaven?

    IOW, were the Pharisees correct?:

    "This multitude that knoweth not the law are accursed"
     
    #9 kyredneck, Feb 26, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
  10. tyndale1946

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    I have a profoundly deaf son who is 35 what are you going to do with him?... He that hath ears to hear let him hear but what ears is this in reference to Natural or Spiritual?... Until his heart is changed by the Holy Spirit he can neither hear or see Spiritual things just like my deaf son... btw he loves the Lord and who taught him to, the Lord did!.. Brother Glen
     
  11. SovereignGrace

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    What are your thoughts on Salvation and those who haven't heard the Gospel ?

    It's not my thoughts and/or opinions that matter but what sayeth the word of God.

    For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.[John 1:17-18]

    How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching tothem? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”g
    16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”h


    17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.


     
  12. Alcott

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    They are among the subjects of Matthew 28:19-20.
     
  13. TCassidy

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    Whenever I am asked this question I immediately counter with another question, "Do you really care about the far off heathen who have never heard the gospel or are you just trolling for an argument?"

    If the answer is, "I really care."

    My response is, "When are you leaving for that far off mission field to preach to those who have never heard?"

    Unless you are willing to go you don't get to even ask the question. :)
     
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  14. TomLaPalm

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    what?, Jesus is the gospel, the only good news, If I have received Jesus a Savior,(properly) I certainly have life (eternal)

    Are you suggesting I can have eternal life without Jesus?
     
  15. TomLaPalm

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    I think God has it under control, I was actually going in a different direction,, If God places one in a time and place to hear the Gospel and make a choice, He certainly does not hold one accountable when He chooses a place , a life, when a person cannot hear.

    Here is the "real" question Maybe these people (human bodies) who did not hear, do not have souls
    It is the only way I can consider along with the concept that God's is righteous and would not condemn those who have not heard and retain the teaching of only one way of salvation.

    So have all people throughout history had souls ?

    or , I will give this also, Christ preached to those in Paradise before the Resurrection, maybe that covers this dilema
     
  16. kyredneck

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    Absolutely not. It is Christ the Redeemer and life giving Spirit that writes the law upon His children's hearts. These are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. No 'gospel formula' included in that arrangement.
     
  17. Darrell C

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    Yes, that is what Scripture teaches.

    But, what we also see is that revelation is progressive, so we have to now understand how men were saved back then.

    It is very simple: God judges men and their fate is determined based on one thing which is consistent throughout Scripture and the Ages, and that would be man's response to the revelation they have been provided with.

    So long story short, your ancestors, those who were born into a time before the Mystery of the Gospel was revealed, were held accountable for the revelation they did have.

    First, we have the internal witness of God:


    Romans 1:18-19

    King James Version (KJV)


    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.


    Romans 2:14-15

    King James Version (KJV)


    14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

    15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)


    Paul makes it clear that this revelation alone denies any excuse on behalf of men to disobey...


    Romans 1:20

    King James Version (KJV)


    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



    Secondly, we have the Testimony of Creation:


    Romans 1:20

    King James Version (KJV)

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


    This is not just a reference to nature, I believe, but, we consider all aspects of creation and that which we encounter there. I have often wondered at the mind of the atheist, who can look upon the newborn and see a product of electro-chemical process and chance.

    Lastly, we have direct revelation, and it is to this that we owe a critical understanding of the progressive nature of the Redemptive Plan.

    If we simply acknowledge one basic truth, that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was a mystery not revealed in prior Ages, then we have less trouble actually understanding Progressive Revelation. While we know the Gospel of Christ can be seen as promised throughout Scripture, we have to keep in mind that men of those days did not understand it as we, born again believers, do.

    So don't fret too much over your ancestors, Tom. If they were obedient to the revelation provided to them, then their fate was just as that of the faithful we read about in the Old Testament. They would have received a designation of Just, and their transgressions would be redeemed at the Cross, and at that time, they would be made perfect/complete in regards to remission of sins.

    It is a common misconception that one must hear the Gospel to be saved, but, we look at Paul's statements here and see Gentiles, who did not even have the Hebrew Scriptures or the Law...said to be in obedience to the Law of God. And that is because God revealed it to them through those two means Paul speaks of.


    God bless.
     
  18. Darrell C

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    But do we see a particular point in time when men could be born of God?

    I think we do...



    John 1:11-13

    King James Version (KJV)


    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


    The context is specific to the Incarnation.

    We see that Christ declared God to man:


    John 1:18


    King James Version (KJV)


    18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.



    God bless.
     
  19. TomLaPalm

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    Gospel means good tidings and is used as a summary for accepting Christ as your Savior ,

    I do not know what you mean
     
  20. Internet Theologian

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    According to some on here ALL have already heard the Gospel. Every. Single. Person.

    Then there are those who say all are already on their way to heaven who haven't heard. Yet these send missionaries to tell them the Gospel. Why bother?
     
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