Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by ReformedBaptist, Aug 4, 2010.
Well? What Bible did He use in the synogogue, quote from, and say could not be broken?
Torah, Torah, Torah!
Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.
Judging by His and other NT writer's quotes probably the Vorlage text.
I would say the Septuagint but I have a hunch you are expecting someone to say that and then prove why it cannot be so. Since I'm not a real scholar in this area, I will sit out for now and let someone else volunteer their answer. I you want to, however, jump in and tell us what you know about this. Although I don't always agree with you, I never find your thinking absurd or out of bounds.
In your opinion how does the Vorlage compare to the Masoretic text translators commonly use today?
There are significant differences. It reads more like the variants found in the Septuagint than the way the Masoretic text reads.
I thought it was the KJV
Actually, it was the King George Version.
Seriously, we once had a discussion about which text JESUS READ ALOUD in Luke 4:16-21, & at that time Doc Cas presented a good argument that it was the Vorlage text. However, the one Jesus used daily was the one IN HIS MIND. He read aloud from what was handed to Him in the synagogues for the benefit of His audience. Remember, Scripture sez this was His custom!
I've read much that argues for the LXX.
I was truly asking a question...lol I know its customary for someone to pick a fight by asking a question when they are really pushing an idea or doctrine.
I try to avoid that. Or, if I pose a question to make a point, then I make my point, not just ask the question.
Thanks for the answers that you all gave that sought to answer the question. lol
With the Old Scofield notes, no less!! :smilewinkgrin:
Sure Jesus could quote scripture without reading it. He is God who inspired that scripture to be written. However, when He quoted scripture He tended to say, "it is written." Jesus quoted from the written word. I really doubt it was anything other than the traditional Hebrew text. I've never bought the LXX argument, primarily because I cannot see Jews in Judea using a corrupted Greek translation like the Septuagint.
If by "traditional Hebrew text" you mean the Masoretic text, it would seem to me that you obviously:
1. Cannot read Hebrew.
2. Have never closely compared the NT "quotes" with the OT scriptures.
First, can you read Hebew?
Second, have you read the Masorteic Text?
Which Hebew Text was used to translate the text into Greek?
Any suggestion on a scholarly work regarding this subject?
In the synagogue the Septaugint would not have been kosher...haha get it...I suspect Christ would have, when He opened the scroll and read, been reading straight from the Hebrew text. The Jews of Jesus' day were very concerned about the Hellenization of Judaism and would have rejected a Greek text in the synagogues. (Sort of like a KJVO Fundamentalist rejects an NIV)
One of the interesting things is that when one considers the Old Testament quotes in the New Testament they usually don't follow the Septaugint's translation. It would seem many (if not most) of the New Testament uses of the Old Testament are individual translations themselves. There wasn't a codified, universal Greek text for all of the first century world.
So you think
1. The Jews in Judea used a horrible Greek translation?
2. Jesus would have quoted from a Greek translation in a synagogue in Nazareth or quoted from one to the stuck-up religious experts in Jerusalem?
Not only can't you read Hebrew, you seem to be equally incapable of reading English! I never mentioned a "Greek translation." I don't believe the NT quotes a Greek translation of the Old Testament. But your statement does indicate you, the self styled expert on bible versions, preservation, and translation, doesn't even know what the Vorlage text is! Its HEBREW!
I wasn't referring to the Vorlage, but the LXX. Nice insults. By the way, I never claimed to be an expert.
Yes. I use it as my study vehicle any time I am preaching from the OT or preaching from the NT when the text quotes the OT.
Good question. That would depend on which Greek translation of the Old Testament you are referring to. First you have the work initiated by Ptolemy II Philadelphus around 250BC (which may be fictitious) followed by at least 6 other translations, the last one being Origens.
However, for the most part the term LXX is generally reserved for the Greek translation of the OT as contained in Aleph and B and that shows signs of having its roots in the Vorlage text.
"The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" from Harper is a very good place to start. Its critical apparatus is very enlightening.
Yeah, that was my point. You produced a non-sequitur which indicated you didn't have a clue. :BangHead: