What Biblical basis is there for Sunday Observance

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by wopik, Oct 27, 2004.

  1. wopik

    wopik
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    What Biblical basis is there for Sunday Observance, besides a group of people sending food to the starving Saints in Jerusalem "on the first day of the week" ?

    1 Corinthians 16: 1-2 / Romans 15: 25-28


    OR -----------

    the women visiting a tomb "on the first day of the week"


    OR ------------

    A Saturday evening gathering together for a fellowship meal, where Paul spoke to the people, and kept on speaking until midnight, since he was going to leave the next day, Sunday ? (Acts 20:7)

    If every time a body of believers meet on a day and a preacher preaches a sermon, and that makes the day holy, there would be numerous Sabbath/holy days.

    Some churches hold Sunday evening meetings and meetings on Wednesday evenings. But neither of these is sacred beyond the act of worship itself.
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    The "Lord's Day" (honoring the resurrection) becomes a term of use in the early church - both in Scripture by the time of John and commonly thereafter. Shabat ends about 6 pm Saturday and the First Day of the Week or Lord's Day commences.

    I expect a good discussion here and hope to join in down the line.
     
  3. Lacy Evans

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  4. Aki

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    the sabbath has been out together with the law since Christ's fulfillment of it. thus the saturday meeting has not been a requirement for the observance of the Lord's Day thereafter.

    but neither is the sunday meeting. however, there must be one! it just happened to be practiced during Sundays, as people back then have already been accustomed to a weekly routine of activities, and the first one started on a Sunday.
     
  5. HankD

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    In the original language of the OT "sabbath" or "shabbat" had connection with two concepts, the cardinal number "seven" and "to rest".

    In the NT the emphasis is upon the "rest" concept and in particular the "rest" that we have in Christ:

    Matthew 11
    28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    Hebrews 4
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest (sabbatismos) to the people of God.
    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

    Colossians 2
    16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


    HankD

    [ October 28, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  6. wopik

    wopik
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    Hello, HankD

    other translations of HEBREWS 4:9 -

    The New American Standard Bible - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    The Holman Christian Standard Bible - A Sabbath rest remains, therefore, for God's people.


    The New Revised Standard Version - So then, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God;


    The Good News Translation - As it is, however, there still remains for God's people a rest like God's resting on the seventh day.

    to find the other translations, check out this link: http://bible.crosswalk.com/ParallelBible/ - search for a particular verse.
     
  7. James_Newman

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    The sabbath rest was a picture (shadow) of the rest that we are told to labour to enter into there in Hebrews. It has served its purpose, so we are no longer bound to keep the shadow (especially us Gentiles who were never commanded to keep it in the first place.) I don't think there is any command to gather on the first day of the week, but it is certainly a good day to dedicate to worship of our Lord and reading scripture.

    The idea that we should go to church on Saturday because Saturday is the sabbath is ignoring the fact that we are not keeping the sabbath when we go to church. If anyone wants to keep the sabbath, I guess thats up to them, but they should not be requiring it of a Christian for a matter of obedience. The matter of forsaking the assembling is another matter entirely. If your church assembles on Saturday, you should probably be there [​IMG]
     
  8. HankD

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    I'm not sure what your point is wopik but perhaps you need to read more of the context of Hebrews 4:9 in a more accurate version (NASB) of this passage than the KJV which erroneously uses "Jesus" for "Joshua" and "rest" for "sabbath" as in the original language texts from which the KJV was translated.

    First Paul establishes the fact of the seventh day rest.

    4 For He has thus said somewhere concerning the seventh day, "And God
    5 and again in this passage, "They shall not enter My rest."...

    Then he speaks of another "Sabbath rest" connected with Joshua...

    6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
    7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, "Today if you hear His voice, Do not not harden your hearts."
    8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
    9 There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    The "remaining" Sabbath rest is the one which the shadow of the Law was pointing to and not the seventh day rest of the Law.

    Which if we do not enter into we will "fall" in disobedience.

    10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his as God did from His.
    11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience.

    It is conceivable therefore that someone who is striving to keep the Law shadow of the true Sabbath today may be "working" and not "resting" in the day called "TODAY" and ironically violating the true Rest of God.

    I believe this is what paul was trying to show the judaizers.


    HankD
     
  9. wopik

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    The words “talked to them” (which the KJV translates “preached unto them”) is dialegomai in the Greek, from which we get our English word dialogue.

    A synonym for dialogue is an exchange of ideas! The great apostle Paul talked, but then they asked questions, Paul talked some more, others talked, they all sang and prayed, they ate food and broke bread.

    http://bible.crosswalk.com/InterlinearBible/ -- "search for" - preached
     
  10. wopik

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    HankD

    Heb 4: 9 - There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
     
  11. Daniel David

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    The sabbath day rest was a sign of the old covenant. It also was tied to the land.

    If I have to observe a day, I also have to live in Palestine.
     
  12. HankD

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    Yes, one remains and the other (the shadow) is gone because it is fulfilled in the "rest" of Christ.

    HankD
     
  13. Keith M

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    Christ rose from the tomb on the first day of the week. "Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb." (Matthew 28:1 NKJV - also see Mark 16:2, 9; Luke 24:1; and John 20:1)

    On the very day of Jesus' resurrection, the disciples began to meet on the first day of the week. "Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, 'Peace be with you.'" (John 20:19 NKJV - also see Acts 20:7)

    Also, we as Christians are told to contribute on the first day of the week. "On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come." (1 Corinthians 16:2 NKJV)

    Except for the command to "lay something aside," the instances above seem to be more tradition than command. It is in remembrance of His resurrection and the dawning of the new dispensation that most Christian bodies now meet on Sundays.
     
  14. wopik

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    Hello, Keith M

    YES. The women visited the tomb "on the first day of the week". PERIOD.


    YES. Christians also collected food (fruit) to send to the famine-striken saints in Jerusalem "on the first day of the week" (1 Corinthians 16: 1-2 / Romans 15: 25-28).

    This speaks of a collection for the poor saints at Jerusalem who were suffering from drought and famine. The needed, not money, but FOOD. Notice Paul had given similar instructions to other churches.

    To the Romans, Paul says, “But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it has pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia [where the Corinthian Church was located] to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem…..When therefore, I have performed this and have sealed to them THIS FRUIT, I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15: 25-28).

    “And when I come, whomsoever you shall approve by your letters, THEM will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also, they [more than one] shall go with me” (1 Cor. 16:3-4).

    Apparently, it was going to require several men to carry this collection, gathered and stored up, to Jerusalem.
     
  15. wopik

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  16. Trotter

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    Jesus restated all of the ten commandments, sans one: the observance of the Sabbath. In fact, Jesus actually refuted the Jewish authorities by healing on the Sabbath, and letting his disciples pluck grain on the Sabbath.

    And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
    (Mar 2:27-28 KJV)


    All days belong to the Lord, period.

    Now, were I Jewish, or SDA, I would probably observe Saturday as my Sabbath. But, since I am neither, I prefer to observe the day that my Lord arose from the tomb to worship Him. You see, the actual day that I observe is not important, but that I do it is.

    Wopik, you can pull out all kinds of verses about observing the Sabbath. I know, because a SDA town is just down the road from me and I have heard them reason all day long (used to work there). But there is no command in the NT for Christians to observe Saturday.

    Paul reasoned in the synagogues on the Sabbath because that was the day the Jews observed. If Paul went on a different day, no one would have been there!

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  17. wopik

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    Hello Trotter

    point 1 - Yes, Paul went to the synagogue, because that was where the Jews were, so he could preach to them. But that is not why Luke says he went there. Luke says that going to synagogue on the Sabbath was still Paul's ethos, his custom (Acts 17:2)--- at this late date.


    point 2 - Acts 13:40-42

    Now, notice what happened.

    The Jews left the synagogue, and only Gentiles remained. "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath" (Vs. 42).

    What an opportunity for Paul and his men!

    Here were only Gentiles, asking the apostle to the Gentiles about coming together again for worship, and hearing the word of God preached, on the next Sabbath day!

    All Paul had to do was to explain to them that they didn't need to wait a whole week—they could come back the very next day, our Sunday, to celebrate the "Eucharistic sacrifice!" Did Paul do this?

    Remember, Luke wrote these words about thirty years after Christ had ascended to heaven. There would have been plenty of time for the "custom" of "Christians meeting together on Sunday in commemoration of the resurrection" in those thirty years.

    What happened? "And the next Sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God" (Vs. 44). These Gentile believers were not counseled to come back the next day.


    Not one word was said about Gentile Christians observing Sunday as the day for worship. Instead, they all came together the following Sabbath day. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, was certainly not observing the first day of the week, nor was he teaching Gentile Christians to do so.

    No, he continually taught them on the Sabbath days.
     
  18. DeafPosttrib

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    Wopik,

    I have been studying sabbath 4 years ago. During in my study on this, I discovered there are twists in King James Version about the timing of Christ's crucify, and resurrection. There is so much deep to explaining about the timing of crucify, and resurrection.

    But, I notice Acts 13:42,44 show good point about sabbaths. There is not a single word in this context saying, Jews or Gentiles were being gathered together for the service on the first day of the week. Verse 42 shows so very clear, it says, when after Jews left synagogue, so, there was a great opportunity for Gentiles came to synagogue to hear Paul preaching. So, the next sabbath, Gentiles were gathering together to hear Paul preaching.

    Also, many baptists often emphasis on 1 Cor. 16:1,2 prove, that the Early Church give tithes on Sundays. But, they misinterpreting this passage of 1 Cor. 16:1-4. Apostle Paul was not talking about church service or tithes. Apostle Paul told them, to give anything - food, clothes, letter, money etc, and to store them till the FIRST DAY of the week. Notice 'day' shows it is italic word, that word, 'day' in KJV is not find in Greek translation. The translators added 'day' unto English Bible. I believe verse 2 tells us, store them till the first week of the month, in other word, Paul will come and to collection them once a month on the first week of the month. For the purpose, Paul shall bring the supplies to Jerusalem, what Christians need.

    1 Cor. 6:1-4 say nothing about church service or tithes either.

    I let you know, I am NOT Seventh Day Adventist or Seventh Day Baptist.

    Does the Bible actually saying Jesus Christ rosen on "Sunday"? Silence.

    Again, notice word, 'day' shows it is Italic in Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; and John 20:1. These word, 'day' is not shown in Greek translation. English translators added it unto English Bible.

    Also, I believe the seven names of seven days were invented by Roman comes from pagan. Word, 'Sunday' means 'Sun'. During Old Testament period, false religion worshipped sun as their god. That was from Baal.

    I do not believe Jesus was actually risen on "Sunday".

    What about the timing of sabbath? Was Saturday, a actual sabbath day? I don't think so. None verse find anywhere in the Bible saying sabbath is Saturday.

    Saturday means, 'Saturn'. That is comes from pagan worship.

    I believe, the timing of sabbath is lose forever, thank to Pagan. Also, I believe the timing of Christ's crucify, resurrection is lose forver thank to Pagan.

    On Tuesday night, I will give much more deeper details about the timing of Christ's crucify, resurrection relate with sabbath issue, what I have been studying Bible 4 years ago. I discovered there are twists in King James Version about the timing of crucify, resurrection, & sabbath too.

    The truly defintion of 'sabbath' means rest. Sabbath is not for 'church service'.

    Sabbath is for the purpose because God rest from creation on the seventh day, so therefore, we should obey 4th or 5th Commadnement on sabbath.

    I do not believe Church should overthrown Ten Commandments even, include 4th Commandement. I believe we ought observe the Ten Commandments. It still apply to us today.

    Is it wrong for any Christians attend church service on Saturday? Nope. Is it wrong for any Christians attend church service on Sunday? Nope. Is it wrong for any Christians attend church service on Monday? Nope. Is it wrong for Christians attend church service on Wednesday? Nope. and goes on....

    The Bible say nothing on what day we must go attend to church service.

    The timing of sabbath & church service on Sunday was changed completely, thank to Catholic.

    Many Christians were persecuted because of keeping sabbath many centuries by Catholics.

    I am planning to start new deaf church in the near future, I would like to have deaf Bible study on Friday night. Also have service on Sunday. Is it wrong for to having deaf Bible study on Friday? No. I think it is nothing wrong with that. Because many deaf always have activity on Friday night. Also, lot of deaf like to sleep thru late Saturday mornings EVEN, also on Sunday mornings too!! I believe it is better to have Bible study on Friday night, because it would be much easier for deaf to attend, while they have no school or off from their work during weekends.

    Later on Tuesday night, I will give much deeper discuss with verses in KJV show there are twists about the timing of crucify, resurrection, and sabbath too. Go ahead anyone of you might not agree with me, that would be fine with me.

    I notice there are much confusion among people about sabbath and Sunday today, cause them much misunderstand and confusion keeping them from going to any religion services. Of course, this is prevent them from being hear the gospel of salvation.

    We should not emphasis to them about the proof of the timing on crucify, resurrection, and sabbath. We need emphasis to them, that there were overwhelming witnesses that Christ already risen from the death is the gospel(good news), to witness them for salvation more important.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  19. Trotter

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    Yes...to debate the Jews about who Christ is.

    Exactly. Paul was not a timid soul. Acts 13:16-41 is the record of the searing sermon he delivered to the Jews in their own synagogue. The Gentiles mentioned were proselytes (v. 43). This very sermon, and the following counsel, led many Jews and Gentiles to faith in Christ.

    If you continue reading, you will see that almost all of Antioch came out to hear Paul the following Sabbath, and the Jews really showed their hineys.

    Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
    And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.
    (Act 13:46-49 KJV)


    So...what part of Paul using the Jewish custom of meeting on the Sabbath to witness and preach to them do you not understand?

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  20. wopik

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    Trotter

    It wasn't a Jewish custom; it always was -- as Paul showed -- intended to be a worldwide custom.

    The Gentiles all waited a whole week — then on the following Sabbath day we find Paul preaching to a whole Gentile city!

    Paul was not trying to impress the Jews. They had turned from him. But Paul kept the Sabbath, and here endorses it for the entire Gentile world.
     

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