What bothers me about Sep 11

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Ben W, Dec 27, 2004.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    I was watching Creflo Dollar on late night TV and he was reading out lists of names of people who were financial members of Creflo Dollar ministries that had been miraculously spared from being in the world trade centres. He read out three names of people who all for different reasons were not there and then said that all the members of his minstry were o.k and not one had been hurt. Implying that being a member of Creflo Dollar ministrys would win some type of favour with God.

    I never watched Creflo Dollar again after that. Yet what he was going on about still bothers me.

    Why did some Christians call in sick or were out of the building and were saved and others were there and were killed? Was there any one person who really was spared by God from what happened that day, or was it just coincedence, you were there you got killed, you werent there it was good luck?

    Why would God spare some yet allow others to suffer and die? If He did spare some, why not spare all?
     
  2. rsr

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    You made a good move in deciding not to watch Dollar again.

    As to the rest ... Why did some Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, etc. not show up for work on that day? Did God providentially spare some people? Perhaps; but I don't think we can say for a certainty that they were, or for what reason. Only God knows.
     
  3. Gina B

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    Don't forget that non-Christians were "spared" too.

    Sometimes you're sick and call off of work because you caught a virus or didn't wash your hands. If anyone said they called off that day because an angel appeared and told them to stay home I'll be more likely to think God was directly planning who would and wouldn't be spared, but even then it would only apply to that one case.
    It'll hurt your brain if you try to find God's reasoning in everything that happens in this world.

    Gina
     
  4. Ps104_33

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    1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

    2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

    3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

    5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    Luke 13:1-5
     
  5. Marcia

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    Why do some die in floods, and others are spared?

    Why do some die in earthquakes, and other live?

    Why do some die of heart attacks, and some survive heart attacks?

    Sept 11 is no different from the 3 situations above in the sense that in any disaster,
    All may die, or
    Some die, some live, or
    All may live

    Why would be being spared from the 9/11 attack be any different than being spared from dying in a train wreck? It's all in God's hands.

    God allows different people to live or die according to his own reasons and purposes, and I don't think we can know why.

    It's fruitless, imo, to try to figure this out, because we can't. The Luke 13 passage posted by Ps104_33 is what I was going to post.

    [Don't listen to Dollar; he's Word-faith all the way.]
     
  6. graceb2u

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    Here is the verse I always read when people die and I don't understand. Deuteronomy 30:20 "that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, ant that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days;
     
  7. IveyLeaguer

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    Beautiful scripture.
     
  8. rufus

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    That question has been in the asking for a long, long time!

    Rufus
     
  9. stevec

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    I'd never heard of Ceflo Dollar until I read this post so I did a quick Google on him, finding both his website as well as the World Changers Church website. I have a personal test I give to every church/Christian organization website before I will even bother with them. It consists of two things:

    1) What are the first three or four things that catch my eye at the top of the web page and,

    2) How hard do I have to look to find some sort of Statement of Faith?

    Dr. Dollar failed both test segments miserably.

    Starting with #2 above, I expect to find a link to a Statement of Faith or "What We Believe" page at the very top of the homepage. If I have to scroll more than half way down the page they either aren't too picky about their beliefs or they have something to hide. I couldn't find any sort of statement on either website.

    As for #1, three out of the first four things I noticed were banners for "Special Online Offers", "2004 Product Brochure" (!!) and "Automatic (bank draft) Tithing". I needed look no further to see that Dr. Dollar's surname fits him and his church very well. Just for kicks I clicked on the Automatic Tithing and got,

    Member number!? I am now thoroughly disgusted, thankyouverymuch.
     
  10. Johnv

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    There were tens of thousands of people whose place of employment was the WTC. On any given day, probably 1 in every 100 or so employees will call in sick. There would have been hundreds of people out sick on 9-11, just as there were on 9-10, or 9-9, etc.

    God is always in control. Everyone who survived, whether they're a believer or not, was spared by God, IMO.
    That's the price we pay for living in a world of cause and effect, aka, free will, and consequences of both noble and sinful actions. Scripture says that the sun shines and the rain fals on both the just and unjust. But, as always, God is in control. To follow the example of Job, I give thanks to God when God has given, and I give thanks to God when GOd has taken away.
     
  11. richard n koustas

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    I knew two christians that worked in the WTC that got on a local train instead of the express train that morning - the train was still in Jersey when the first plane hit. they were spared. I also know one christian that was on one of the planes.

    why were the two spared?

    besides Luke 13, take a look at the book of Job again...
     
  12. Pitipat

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    Ben W'

    You have asked an age old question that has a simple answer, and that is; The answer is "GOD is Soverign". This answer is in no way intended to be flippant, I too have ask this question in the past until the Holy Spirit, through the WORD revealed this to me.

    Til HE returns
     
  13. Phillip

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    The rain falls on both the just and the unjust.
     
  14. menageriekeeper

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    I'd say some were spared because God wasn't finished wih them yet.

    But we must remember, though the death toll was horrific, it wasn't nearly what it could have been thanks to the quick action of the NYFD. Some 20-30 thousand people worked in the twin towers and only about a third of those died. Does that mean that God spared 2/3's of the people?

    Probably not.....
     
  15. Soulman

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    I believe God spared who He intended to spare. Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

    I don't think we should ever question that.

    I think the biggest thing that came about as a result of 9-11 was that necks were briefly turned twards God and churches were filled. People actually took tracts and listened.

    However. It was an anxious for the soul titanic moment. People saw their vulnerability and were willing to listen as long as they didn't have to change the way they perceived God. As time went on and things returned to normal people slid back into their lives and God didn't matter any more than He did before. When faced with life and death most will turn to God for help and assurance. They will promise to serve and love Him if He will deliver them from their dilemma.

    Once delivered, few make good on their promise. Few are really converted.

    If people really had been moved by the Spiri of God and not the spirit of self preservation, they would have listened to the truth and we would have seen revival throughout the nation. Some were saved. Most were not.

    This is what we witnessed as a result of 9-11.

    There is still time for America if she will just repent!

    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
     
  16. Marcia

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    Oh, no, not the 2 Chron. passage again! I don't think this means God will heal the U.S. or has promised to. I think this was only meant for Israel.

    I started a thread not too long ago on 2 Chron 7.14. It's here
    http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/10/4544.html?
     
  17. Plain Old Bill

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    Some people will always try to out think God. They will give Him credit or blame according to thier own agendas.
    If there is any miracle here on the 9-11 and the towers it is that so many escaped and were spared.
     
  18. Karen

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    But POB,
    The way you and others state it, you kind of sound like a Deist. That God just set general laws in motion, and then stepped back.
    The God we serve is actively working out His will in our lives. And no, I am not particularly a Calvinist.

    Karen
     
  19. Plain Old Bill

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    Dear Karen,
    Trust me I am no deist.What I am saying is that as soon a natural cotastrophe occurrs the prophecy nuts come out blaming or crediting everything of thier interpetation of how and why God acted or did'nt act.9-11 was an act of War by al-queda. The miracle was that instead of 50,000 people being killed, about 4,000 were, leaving 44,000 spared.Doe's God get any credit for that?I praise and thank God for those spared.
    Don't be to hard on Calvin or Luther they were both human with an awful large amount of light to lend to us.I would say with some exceptions they got the important stuff pretty close to right.
     
  20. Plain Old Bill

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    I wish I could get my computer to force me to edit .
     

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