What can we learn...?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 12strings, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. 12strings

    12strings
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    What can we learn from two men who are a bit more well known than most of us on this forum (at least to us SBC folk)?

    1. Tom Ascol, SBC Calvinist: (I stole this from another BB thread that someone else posted).

    [/QUOTE]

    2. Johnny Hunt, SBC Non-Calvinist: (the following account was told to me directly by someone who knows Johnny Hunt, and who spoke to him about this):

    What can we learn from these 2 men?
     
  2. glfredrick

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    2. Johnny Hunt, SBC Non-Calvinist: (the following account was told to me directly by someone who knows Johnny Hunt, and who spoke to him about this):



    What can we learn from these 2 men?[/QUOTE]

    That any may is both sinful and also a learner?
     
  3. freeatlast

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    What can we learn...?
    That they are both wrong.
     
  4. 12strings

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    Would you like to elaborate?
     
  5. Rippon

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    I'm sure that you meant to use the past tense --They both were wrong. Now they have upgraded their godliness.
     
  6. freeatlast

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    The bible teaches God's sovereign rule and election. It also teaches man has free will. Both are taught, so to hold to one teaching over the other instead of both equally makes the teaching of both void. Instead of taking one side both Cals and non Cals need to accept both views without holding to one above the other as both are taught in the bible.
     
    #6 freeatlast, Dec 2, 2011
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  7. glfredrick

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    So, your assumption is that all Calvinists simply ignore the parts of Scripture that deal with the free will aspects of humans?

    That seems to be an issue you have in your stereotype of Calvinists, rather than an actual issue in the Calvinist soteriology.

    It is not that Calvinists deny any human free will, but rather, that we rightly understand that our expression of free will gets us nowhere, especially with God, and further, that no act of human will can ultimately save. That is God's domain. Even if we desperately wish -- using every ounce of our own will -- to be saved, unless or until God does what only God can do all our expression of will is for naught.
     
  8. freeatlast

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    I think you have made my point even if you do not see it. :godisgood:
     
  9. glfredrick

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    And, I think that Calvinists have been making that point since the beginning of the church...
     
  10. 12strings

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    Ok, then I can see how you say Tom Ascol is Wrong. But how does it follow that Johnny Hunt is wrong simply by the fact that he is not a calvinist. Would you not use those words to describe yourself? Or is there something else you have heard Johnny Hunt teach that would tell you he does not believe in sovereign rule or election?
     
  11. 12strings

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    My answer to the op...

    Ok, since no one has guessed it yet...

    What I think I can learn from these two men is that a vitriolic attack on someone because of their beliefs on either side of the Election issue is not needed; and as we mature, as these men have, we will be slower to speak against our brothers and sisters in Christ, and quick to listen. Also, we can learn that even men in their 40's and 50's can learn from their mistakes and learn to grow and change in their kindness toward those they disagree with.

    That's My take...From what I've heard and read from both of them, though they aren't perfect, I appreciate both of them.
     
  12. JesusFan

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    God ALONE though has "real" free Will, as He is able at any time to exactly as he would desire to see accomplished, mankind since after the Fall of Adam, are now bound by the "bondage of the human will", which is a biblical way to state that we are now sinners whose very will due to their depraved condition will allow them to make now just "limited" decisions, and always will be in the negative as concerning choosing for Christ by themselves!

    Unless God enables us to be in a position to make a "real" free will decision for Christ, NONE would be saved!
     
    #12 JesusFan, Dec 2, 2011
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  13. freeatlast

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    2. Johnny Hunt, SBC Non-Calvinist: (the following account was told to me directly by someone who knows Johnny Hunt, and who spoke to him about this):



    What can we learn from these 2 men?[/QUOTE]
    John Hunt is a little difficult to understand about his position but if I have understood him correctly he holds to the tenants' of Calvinism, or at least some of them but just does not want to be noted as a Calvinist because of hyper Calvinism. He is more of a moderate on this issue as best I can tell.

    I am saying it takes both sides of the issue holding to both equally. God’s Sovereignty and free will, not one above the other or one excluding the other.
     
  14. JesusFan

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    John Hunt is a little difficult to understand about his position but if I have understood him correctly he holds to the tenants' of Calvinism, or at least some of them but just does not want to be noted as a Calvinist because of hyper Calvinism. He is more of a moderate on this issue as best I can tell.

    I am saying it takes both sides of the issue holding to both equally. God’s Sovereignty and free will, not one above the other or one excluding the other.[/QUOTE]

    Point is that God Sovereignty is exercised when He allows those to whom His grace will be effectual applied towards, and to them ONLY will they be having "free will" to choose Christ!
     
  15. freeatlast

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    A good principle to learn. I pray I can learn it without compromise.
     

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