What causes a believer to sin?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, May 28, 2011.

?

What is the one determining factor that causes you to sin?

  1. God's will

    1 vote(s)
    5.3%
  2. Your will

    18 vote(s)
    94.7%
  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    Suppose that you, a true child of God, sinned yesterday at noon. Why did you sin? What was the determining factor that caused you to sin? Explain why you chose your answer.

    And please don't say "both," if God's will determines the will of the believer then the determining factor is God, not man.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    Your human will caused you to choose sin over God. At some point, however brief, you considered your options (to sin or not) and chose sin.

    But your decision wasn't made without outside influence. Your lifetime of experience, your own sinful nature, the influence of others you have had contact with, Satan and his demons (perhaps... though people are plenty evil on their own... they don't need much tempting).

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #2 canadyjd, May 29, 2011
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  3. annsni

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    Your human/sin nature chose to sin.
     
  4. mcdirector

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    it would be my sinful nature.
     
  5. Skandelon

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    When God ordained whatsoever is to come to pass, didn't he ordain you to sin? How was God's ordination of that sin prior to your existence not the determining factor?
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    the creature chooses to sin

    3rd Chapter 1689 Confessions of Faith (Baptist)

    "Yet in such a way that God is neither the author of sin nor does He have fellowship with any in the committing of sins"
     
    #6 Earth Wind and Fire, May 29, 2011
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  7. canadyjd

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    What causes a person to choose....one thing over another? This instead of that? That way instead of this way? Everyone makes choices, thousands of choices, everyday. Why did you choose one thing over another?

    Because at the time of the choosing, your mind preferred the thing you chose.

    It seemed better to you and for you, at that moment more pleasing to you, to choose the one thing instead of the other, the one way over the other way.

    What caused your mind, at the instant of the choosing, to embrace the thing you know to be sinful... that you know to be displeasing to God?

    What caused you to believe, at the instant of the choosing, that the sinful thing was to be preferred?

    At least two things are certain:

    1. God did not cause you to choose the sinful thing

    2. Your human will was influenced by numerous factors that led to the decision to sin.

    If you apply this truth to a person's decision to come to Christ for salvation, I believe scripture is clear that an unbeliever is unable to choose Christ without God intervening... to free that person from the numerous influences that cause the mind to choose sin... so that person may see the truth of who Jesus is, what He has done, and their own need for a Savior...

    When that happens, the mind sees the choice of faith in Christ as the thing most pleasing, the preferred way, the most pleasant and beneficial course of action.

    That cannot happen without God's intervention. Such intervention is a gift from God.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  8. canadyjd

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    Perhaps you could give us the passage of scripture you are founding your belief on so we can discuss it?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    Our old man has been crucified with Christ. We do not yet have a glorified body.
    This body of flesh still has remaining corruption,we are still able to sin.
    It is out of charcater for a christian to practice sin.
    God knows our frame. He will discipline us when we sin in several ways.

    Before the world was....when God determined to foreknow His elect....
    He purposed to save us....by saving us from all our sins...past present and future sins. God's plan allowed for our sinful failings, but in mercy He purposed to love His elect eternally.
    God is not able to sin, and cannot be or have sin associated with His Holy actions. There is nothing, not one molecule outside of God.
    Sin, Satan, cults, and arminians,sheep goats, wheat, tares are all part of Gods plan as it unfolds.
    Any speculation that links sin to God is wicked. To say that God is who causes sin , is wicked. If you say such a thing you need to repent of that.

     
    #9 Iconoclast, May 29, 2011
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  10. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    My old sinful nature and my new nature given to me at my conversion got into this fight. It was a knock-down drag-out battle. My sinful nature won. This time.
     
  11. percho

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    Suppose that you, a true child of God,?

    A. A true child of God in respect to this? Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Or this? For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.


    B. Or did you mean in respect to this? For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    What is the deciding factor between the two and which would you say would be truly born again?

    Will one of these still sin and the other not? But we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    Does A or B best describe this verse?
    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Does A or B have the New Covenant law of God written in his heart?
     
  12. righteousdude2

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    Great Post

    In my case, it is always self(fishness). God may have control of my heart, but the old man continues to rise up from time-to-time and stupidness replaces grace; worldliness replaces spirituality; and Psalm 51 rushes across my mind, fills my heart with remorse, and the Holy Spirit directs my spirit back to one John 1:5-10. :praying:

    It is so important that none of us don't forget from where we first came, and that it was by His grace that we are no longer headed in the direction of so many that reject His grace and forgiveness.

    I can promise you this: I am not where I may want to be yet (spiritually). However, I'm a long, long way from where my journey began! :thumbs:

    I will always love the words of that old bumper sticker: "I am not perfect, JUST forgiven!" :applause: God had to have inspired the person who wrote the words of that bumper sticker!

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul :type:
     
  13. annsni

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    Amen!! **applause**
     
  14. percho

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    Paul agrees with you dude2,

    For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    When?


    If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
     
  15. Skandelon

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    I think you and I are in agreement on this point. You seemed to support the concept of contra-causal free will in general, and in the process of salvation you affirm the need for divine intervention. Both are concepts we agree upon. The only difference of which I'm aware is that I believe the help God brings is resistible while you believe it to be effectual.
     
  16. preachinjesus

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    Personally I'd usually say that we, believers, sin because we're dealing with the after-effects of a fallen nature.

    So yes I'd answer the the second bullet. What is rather interesting about all of this, to right now, is that all of the respondents have answered the same way in the poll. Holy cow this has never happened...we agree on something.
     
  17. canadyjd

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    Perhaps you could explain the concept of "contra-causal free will".

    In general, I believe every person, prior to God's intervention, has a human will enslaved to sin that is unable to make the ultimate choice for good in their lives (choosing Christ as their Savior) because they simply do not see Him as the best choice for their lives.
    God's intervention, imho, is always effective for the purpose He has planned for it. I cannot believe for an instant that God has failed to accomplish any thing He has purposed.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  18. Skandelon

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    Sure. "A choice to act is free if it is an expression of an agent's categorical ability of the will to refrain or not refrain from the action." Some call it libertarian freedom.

    I agree with this in part, but would just differ on the effectuality of the means God chooses to intervene.
     
  19. Winman

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    Then why wasn't the the young rich ruler saved?

    Mk 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

    Jesus offered this man salvation, and the scriptures say Jesus loved him, so obviously Jesus desired that he be saved, so why wasn't Jesus' call effectual? Why was this man able to reject Jesus' call?
     
  20. annsni

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    Could it be that it wasn't a call to salvation but instead a call to show as an example for all of history some of the things that hinder our walk with Christ? I know I've had to learn that very lesson myself and I saw the rich young ruler as an example for me. I ask myself "What stands between me and Christ?"
     

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