What causes a sinner to be hardened to the gospel?

That interpretation is taking John 6:44 entirely out of context. Even the NKJV subhead shows the translators understood the context - people were rejecting Jesus, and Jesus explained why: no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him.

Rejected by His Own

41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, "I am the bread which came down from heaven." 42 And they said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, "I have come down from heaven'?"
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, "Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

And then Jesus refers back to this statement later in John 6:65...

For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

And John wasn't saying it. Jesus was.

 

Brother Ray:

YOU SAID (BROTHER RAY):
You wrongfully injected the word 'eternal life;' it is not found in Romans 9:16. You didn't think we would miss something so blatant as you just tried to pull.

You again added to the Word of God by saying, 'and that eternal life is " NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, BUT OF GOD that sheweth mercy." (Romans 9:16)'

I must warn you that God is warning you of what you did above. Read Revelation 22:19.


ME (BROTHER JOE): I did not add to the word of God. I put a quotation mark after those words you claim I added! A quotation mark indicates when my commentary (words) end and my Bible quote begins. Here is my exact post....please notice the quotation marks right AFTER the words you falsley accussed me off adding to the verses

MY POST YOU WERE REFERRING TO: It even goes so far as to say that those we are born again are born NOT " of the WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD (John 1:13)" and that eternal life is " NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, BUT OF GOD that sheweth mercy." (Romans 9:16)

I cant believe you would quote me a verse about my name being taken out of the book of life on your the grounds of a false accusation that I added to the word of God!!!!!!!? Do I get an apology?

Saved by grace,

Brother Joe

 

Brother Ray:

BROTHER RAY SAID: It is true that the Triune Godhead, including the Father draws sinners to salvation through Christ to eternal life. Without the drawing of the Father no one would accept Jesus. ****John, in no way, was saying that God is only drawing an alleged few elect souls...Hand picking an elect group for Heaven flies in the face of Almighty God's Divine Justice toward everyone born of a woman.'****

ME (BROTHER JOE): It is actually the Arminian concept of general atonement (that Christ died for everyone, but some will go to Hell) THAT DISRUPS THE UNITY OF THE HOLY TRINITY, not the Calvinistic doctrine of limited atonement (that Christ died for a definite limited number of people all of whom will be regenerated.

"To say either the Father chose all, the Son died for all, but the Spirit will only call some, or that the Father chose some, the Son died for all, and the Spirit will only call some, IS TO INTRODUCE AN ELEMENT OF INCONSISTENCY INTO THE TRIUNE GODHEAD. But to say that the father chose a people, the Son redeemed that people, and the Holy Spirit will effectually call that same people into eternal life is to agree with the Bible doctrine"(Gowens, Be Ready to Answer).

Saved by grace,

Brother Joe

 

Brother Ray:

Please permit me one final post to you for the evening.

BROTHER RAY SAID: Hand picking an elect group for Heaven flies in the face of Almighty God's Divine Justice toward everyone born of a woman.'

ME (BROTHER JOE): Why is this? If possible, please support your answer with scripture as well.

Thanks and I have been enjoying are biblical discussions.

Brother Joe

 

Skandelon,

It's funny. Ususally its the Calvinists who is insisting that God did the hardening and the Arminian who argues its the will of the man.

Yes, our positions seem to have reversed. However, your exposition of Romans 9 and that of certain Calvinists make God's request to Pharoah a sham. God really did not want Pharoah to let His people so he blinded his eyes. God really did not want Pharoah to be saved so He hardened Pharoah against gospel.

Both premises are incorrect. God wanted Pharoah to be saved and to let His people go. But Pharoah would not repent. God reacted to Pharoah's rebellion by hardening his heart. So the fault lies with Pharoah not God.

Is Satan's will more powerful than God's?

No. God's gracious will is that all men be saved. So, why are not all men saved? Romans 9 gives the answer. Pharoah stubbornly resisted the grace offered and conveyed by Moses and God hardened Pharoah's heart because of his unbelief. Why are others saved? Romans 9 also gives the answer. God has mercy on those he has mercy.

 

Yes, I know the Bible says in some places that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, and in others that God hardened Pharaoh's heart (although God said before Moses even re-entered Egypt that He would harden Pharaoh's heart).

But here's a question: Absent the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, could Pharaoh have reacted any other way than to harden his own heart?

I can anticipate what some might ask - if Pharaoh had no choice but to harden his own heart, why did God ALSO harden it? The speculative answer to that should be obvious, though. Additional hardening may have been required to get the results God wanted.

 

Brother Joe,

You said,'MY POST YOU WERE REFERRING TO: It even goes so far as to say that
those we are born again are born NOT " of the WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF
THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD (John 1:13)" and that eternal life is " NOT
OF HIM THAT WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, BUT OF GOD that sheweth
mercy." (Romans 9:16)'

Ray: I consider you my brother in the Christian faith but none of us have the right to drop in our preconceived throughts right in the middle of a verse or passage, like you did.

For example, I have no right to say, 'Who gave Himself a ransom for all, 'except Judas' to be testified in due time.' [I Timothy 2:6] If I wilfully did this I too would be adding to the precious Word of God.

No apology is needed.

Is 'eternal life' a part of the verse in Romans 9:16?

You have not led us into temptation; but please don't lead us into theological error.

 

Sin.

 

Sin. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

The Lord does not make the non-elect sinner sin, because if He did, God would be the Author of those sins. All sinners sin because they want to and yet God makes them responsible for their waywardness. Sinners are the author of their individual sins and God will hold them as guilty before Almighty God.

He is not it! It is not He!

 

And your point is what? Adam sinned, and through Adam we all inherited a sinful nature.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned

(By the way, the word "men" actually appears in the Greek translated "all men" in Romans 5:12 -- unlike in John 12:32, where there is no Greek word "men" in the part translated as "draw all men")

The Lord does not "make" anybody sin. Thanks to Adam, it comes naturally to us all. Indeed, even the Calvinist can say we all sin of our own free will. And that sinful nature causes us to be unable to respond to the Gospel without God's intervening grace.

 

God is not pushing salvation. It is offered as a free gift. He does not force Himself where He is not wanted. The axis on which salvation becomes effective in the life of a sinner, is faith. [Romans 5:1] Without faith it is impossible to please the Lord God. [Hebrews 11:6]

Faith is a sinners response toward the Lord. [Read: I Peter 1:7, 9 and 21] Faith is the human response to the offer of grace. Notice Peter says, it is 'your faith,' not God's packaged faith.

We Arminians well know that the Holy Spirit must be in operation in drawing sinners to Christ. The Holy Spirit receives the glory and honor in this most important of ministries.

 

True. The regenerated heart will ALWAYS want Him.

Faith is pivotal. It is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, Philippians 1:29, 2 Peter 1:1), not something we "decide" to do.

Correct! And those who are controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God (Romans 8:8). Therefore those who are controlled by the sinful nature cannot have faith. And who are those controlled by the sinful nature? Those who do not have the Spirit of God dwelling in them, and therefore they do not belong to God (Romans 8:9).

Not if it's impossible to please God while you're still controlled by the sinful nature. And the only time you're not controlled by the sinful nature is if the Spirit of God dwells in you and you belong to Him.

Oh, come now - are we resorting to such trivialities? Then whose salvation is it? The Bible says it's God's.

Luke 2:30 For my eyes have seen your salvation

No no, wait! It's OUR salvation!

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation

Criminy, that's not even a challenge.

 

Its ironic you see it that way because Arminians often accuse Calvinists of making the gospel message a sham because God really did not want everyone to be saved. But I understand that you approach things a bit differently, you are more careful with the whole "double predestination" issue. But, still I think you missed the point concerning Pharoah. God DID want Pharoah to let the people go but not until after he had accomplished His purposes through him. What if Pharoah, by his own free will, was persuaded by the 5 plague and let the people go before God taught them what he wanted them through the passover. Sealing one in disobedience is not "causing" them to disobey, nor do I believe it makes his call for Pharoah to obey a sham.

I totally agree with this. What problem do you have with what I have said? </font>[/QUOTE]God will never be unrighteous. Romans 9:14 God is not a puppeteer forcing people to sin or make bad choices in order to fulfill His purposes. God foreknew that Pharoah would fulfill His purposes but God did not force Pharoah to sin. Romans 9:17

God did not cloud Pharoah's mind so that he could not make a logical decision (seal him in disobedience as you put it). Satan did.

 

True. The regenerated heart will ALWAYS want Him.

QB]</font>[/QUOTE]If that's the case, then why do regenerated people still commit sins against God? If the regenerated heart ALWAYS "wants" God, wouldn't the regenerated heart ALWAYS choose to obey God?

 

That's a non-sequitur.

Man does not have ANY desire to respond to the Gospel (and therefore cannot) without the quickening of the Spirit. But, once being quickened, the elect's response is guaranteed to be to believe and accept the Gospel. Jesus says so. That of all the Father gives Him, none will perish, but He will raise the elect at the last day.

It does not follow logically that because the quickened heart will always respond to the Gospel that the quickened heart will never sin. And we have no such guarantee from Jesus, either. Jesus never says, that of all the Father gives Him, none will ever sin or fall into temptation of the flesh.

There is the issue of God's purpose in regenerating the elect, but one need not address that in order to refute your point, since it is a non-sequitur.