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Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Oct 2, 2013.
what is the deciding factor for that in and among sinners who hear the message of Jesus?
A. I just chose!
Q. Why did you choose?
A. Because I chose!
Q. Well, why did you choose?
A. Because I chose!
Q. No, I mean why did you choose?
A. Because I chose!
You will never know until you ask them.
They might of had a bad experience with people claiming to be Christ followers, Christians.
It might be because they like the life style they have been living.
Have you ever really got to know a sinner and find out, sometimes when you go in all guns a blazing they will go to the defensive.
If you can't get past their defensive for what ever reason you are just making a guess to why?
Are they the one's who just love the darkness or do they just don't see the light from those who are claiming to be from the light?
Could anyone come to Jesus with a wrong attitude, because they like the life style of separated themselves from the sinners that we all are?
We can be in the world and not off it?
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”
27 After this, Jesus went out and saw a tax collector by the name of Levi sitting at his tax booth. “Follow me,” Jesus said to him, 28 and Levi got up, left everything and followed him.
29 Then Levi held a great banquet for Jesus at his house, and a large crowd of tax collectors and others were eating with them. 30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”
31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Why did I choose Jesus? Because He first chose me......
Why did you put your faith in Jesus?
1) You believe in God, the one who sent Jesus. If you do not believe in the one who sent Jesus, you cannot believe in Jesus.
2) Believing in God, you were "of My Sheep." You were a seeker of God and believed God rewards those who seek Him.
3) You were cultivated, taught and shown how godliness is better than godlessness.
4) You were presented in some way the gospel of Christ, and you understood it, having not hardened yourself so much by the practice of sin, that you had lost your ability to discern spiritual milk.
5) You were watered after you were planted, discipled and encouraged and given fellowship with fellow believers.
6) You meditated on your choice, give your life to Christ who died for you, or deny the blood of the Master.
7) You chose to trust in the blood of Christ and to strive to follow Him wherever He leads.
Choice, in my maturity and scripture reading it is not I was drawn by His loving kindness.
I was dead in sin my old creation that had no life in me at all dead in sin I am.
I was around 8 when my neighbor invited me to church when i heard God the Father loved me that He sent His Son. The creator of the world loved me. The Son part I did not understood, Jesus is just a teacher or something that i need to believe what He said.
I didn't love Jesus at the time I loved God because of the message that He loved the world.
It was a seed that could of been choked out by trials and tribulation, then I would have nothing growing in me to start making me alive.
I continued to listen and learn from Jesus.
At 11 I found out Jesus is God one with the Father and the only way to the Father is Jesus. I also heard all that Jesus did for me at the cross. That He substitute me on the cross so I could come to Him to have life. My wages of my sin was death. I was dead in sin not alive, not regenerated. Only in Christ in God's timing not mine. I went to Him because of His loving kindness.
I wanted to be baptized because of Mark 16:16. The church i was going didn't baptize. So i was not baptized
I was 15, I moved to Texas from California. I stopped going to Church.
In the Army I started visited all kinds of Churches. I wanted to experience them all none of them satisfied my hunger. They didn't teach the thing my original church taught.
When I got out of the army I started going to a Baptist Church. Me and my soon to be wife went forward. We got baptized together. I thought that was what I was missing but it didn't change like I thought it would.
I read the bible I couldn't understand a word of it.
I got introduced to a book called "all of Grace" on the pulpit a small book that told me to to stop looking at myself to change, but God through Jesus for the change.
In my late 20 's I got separated from my wife lost everything. I started to read the Gospel and in tears realizing all God did for me through Jesus Christ He opened my eyes.
My old creation is being destroyed and God through Jesus is turning me into a new creation in Him that was chosen before the foundation of the world while my old man was made for destruction.
Because it is a gift from God(Rom. 12:3).
Correct. Why do some believe and other don't?
I would called this being drawn/effectually called.
I wasn't presented the gospel in some way, but by God called preachers, after God had enlightened me.
I am not for sure where you're going with this, but I can't really disagree with this, if I am understanding you correctly.
Look, I don't deny man has a responsibilty to answer God's call. God enables us to do so, and w/o Him doing the work first and foremost, we couldn't.
Before any of this could take case, we had to be of His sheep. His sheep know His voice.
May God bless you, too....
Jews the Pharisees thought they were the sheep of God. If they were His they would listen to Jesus.
Jesus came into His own and they did not receive Him. If you disown Him, not a Peter disowning a complete one, He will disown you.
I think men miss understand what Jesus was teaching the Jews. To turn it into something Jesus was not teaching.
Simple, pithy, and correct.
:godisgood: :jesus: :godisgood: :jesus:
God through Jesus also choose the young rich ruler to follow Him first, but he walked away. he walked away from life He could of had in Jesus.
Some people think what they have is enough.
BS ...you chose zilch.
I wouldn't have worded the OP that way since false Gospel preaching is decisionism.
The fact of the matter is, if you must word it as above is that Jesus came to save His sheep, and some are simply not His sheep. He didn't come to herd goats as some churches do. Some desire through false teaching to make Him just that, a goat herder.
The deciding factor was being chosen of the Lord, and accepted of the Beloved One. He sent His gospel to proclaim and claim those that were His....
Yes. The same thing Paul saw in 2 Timothy 2:8-10.
Most people are not goats they are sheep not His, but still sheep. All they know is to follow. Most are being lead to death, but they are just following.
Goats can take care of themselves, they are stubborn. They are also used to lead sheep to the slaughter.
I look at as attitude and what they are doing, but not who they can become in Christ.
Who can change anything and anyone to be His.
There is hope for a goat and a Dog like me who was not a sheep or a goat, just a dog who God included and treats me as one of His own when I heard the Gospel of my salvation having believed.
We need to come just as you are a goat, a sheep, a dog like me and you will be His sheep not what you once was
If you can't understand who you was before Jesus you will never understand the Gospel. You were dead in sin not alive unto you came to Christ.
New International Version (NIV)
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Huh....if they are not His, they are already dead.
The little girl was not dead but asleep. You are looking at death as what you see which is temporary. The dead will be awaken one day to face eternal punishment. Instead of what you don't see the soul which is eternal why because they will face eternal punishment.
When Jesus word wakes you up, because His word is Spirit and life.
We as messengers has those words and the Holy Spirit to do greater things than Him. Jesus as a man was one person and we are many can spead the message to the ends of the Earth our ends not Paul's
So when His word wakes them up they need to run to Jesus to be dead in sin still, but alive in Christ.
Only in Christ we are made alive you are dead apart from Him, so when the opportunity arises you need to run to Him, just as you are.
We being dead is a reason to run to Him to live not to try to convince people they can't.
We as believers is to encourage people to believe and not to turn away from God through Jesus not to convince them they can't come.
God can change a goat i witness it my self. He mocked Christians made fun of us, hated us, my friend continued to love him and i seen him transform before my eyes
You need to change a word there Willis, we are chosen IN him, and we are made accepted IN the beloved.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
We are elect according the foreknowledge of the Father. The Father foresaw those who believed on Jesus and were baptized into his body and chose them. A person is therefore chosen IN him, and made accepted IN the beloved, which is Jesus Christ.
Changing the word "in" to "of" seems like a little thing, but leads to GREAT error.