What Commandment did Saphria & Annanias Violate

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by SpiritualMadMan, May 10, 2006.

  1. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
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    OK,

    Does anyone have a good dissertation on what exact Written Letter of God's Law Saphira and Annanias violated to get an instant death sentence?

    My contention is that they didn't violate a specific written 'letter' of God's Law.

    But, they did violate a higher NT concept...

    I am thinking that they Violated the intent of Jesus' Prayer in John 17...

    They violated Unity and Love in the Body of Christ...

    True they bore false witness against themselves but not against a neighbor...

    They didn't steal, as Peter says the money was theirs to do with as they pleased...

    Thanks,

    Mike Sr.
     
  2. mman

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    Acts 5:3 - But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit

    (vs 4)..."You have not lied to men but to God."

    What was the net effect? "great fear came upon all who heard of it." (vs 5) and "And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things." - (vs 11)

    Peter was who he said he was, an apostle, inspired by the Holy Spirit. Peter had been filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4 on the day of Pentecost. An attempt to deceive him was an attempt to deceive God.

    The sin was not in the keeping back, that was fine. It was theirs and they could do with it as they pleased. When they lied to God, by lying to Peter who was filled with the Holy Spirit, God sentenced them to death though the inspired apostle, Peter.

    Clearly, this could not happen today.
     
  3. Gold Dragon

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    I don't see why not. As far as I know, the Holy Spirit is still around and given as a counsellor to Christ's followers. Whether God chooses to deliver the same punishment to those who commit similar sins is up to His sovereign will.
     
  4. qwerty

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    The context -
    (end of Acts 4 and the beginning of Acts 5)
    - shows the church at Jerusalem in the midst of revival and growth.

    An important piece of information - "There were no needy persons among them."

    This was because -
    "For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need."

    An incredible move of the power of the Holy Spirit was at work in the church.

    Evidently, there was appropriate honor being given to those who were able to sell lands and houses. Barnabas was one who was noted.


    "Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira", thought that they could deceive the leadership by selling their property, and giving a part of the proceeds, and acting like they had given all.

    They must have been deceived themselves. Most people in a community know the value of property. If I sold my house, which might be worth $100,000, and then said that I donanted the entire sale, and gave only $50,000, it wouldn't take a room of rocket scientists to know that I was being deceptive.

    To be openly deceptive in the midst of a major move of God can prove deadly.

    Also, another important point is that there was agreement between a husband and a wife to try to pull this deception.

    The Holy Spirit gave the Apostle Peter wisdom and discernment to understand what was going on. In this specific case, the penalty for this was death, to both the husband and the wife.

    The result was:
    " Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events."

    After writing this, I am reminded why so many don't want the gifts of the Holy Spirit operational in their churches today. We would probably have a lot more funerals than we could handle.
     
  5. SpiritualMadMan

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    Good posts...

    Though I disagree with mman's contention that it couldn't happen today...

    Maybe not as dramatically. [​IMG]

    1 Corinthians 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
    1 Corinthians 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

    Though I would say that if we had an Apostle Peter today the church would be a bit sparser...

    I call what Saphira and Annanias did, "Spiritual-One-Up-Manship".

    Why did they do what they did...

    The previous chapter may give a clue.

    Barnabas had just given a gift and whether he was seeking acclaim or not got acclaim...

    Acts 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
    Acts 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

    I believe Saphira and Annanias saw the 'elevation' the donation got Barnabas and their pride got the better of them and they wanted some of that, too.

    But, they wanted their cake and they wanted to eat it, too. So, they kept back part of the sale price.

    And, pretended to give the full amount as if it were some great sacrifice...

    Why was it worthy of death...

    It took acclaim away from someone that really deserved it...

    It denigrated the true sacrifice of Barnabas

    I postulate that such behavior would be highly disruptive to the unity of the Body...

    Another possibility may be:

    Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

    It is interesting that under the Holy Spirit's Guidance Peter gave each party an oppurtunity to confess and repent...

    Mike Sr.
     
  6. mman

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    Surely nobody on this board thinks they are filled with and speak by Holy Spirit like one of the apostles were, do they?

    A simple study would show that the signs and wonders were to confirm their spoken word (Matt 16:20). The word has been confirmed (past tense - Heb 2:3) by the various miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit, therefore it does not need "re-confirming" by more miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit. They didn't have the completed (or "perfect" as in I Cor 13) word. We do. If the bible is truly all sufficient (II Tim 3:16-16), we don't need the Holy Spirit to talk to us directly. If that were the case, then the word is not all we need and II Tim 3:16-17 is false. We have already been given all things that pertain to life and godliness (II Pet 1:3).

    If anyone claimed to have the same measure of the Holy Spirit as one of the apostles, then you would know when someone is lying to you. You could heal all manner of diseases. You could heal ALL (Acts 5:16), without any excuses about someone having a lack of faith.

    Here is a challenge. Here is my claim: The Holy Spirit does not talk to anyone directly today, other than through the written word of God. If this is a lie, then I am lying to you, which is the same as lying to God, and I would be guilty of the same sin as Annanias. Someone strike me down for lying to God.

    However, if I am telling the truth, which I am, then I am not guilty.

    God knows who I am, does anyone doubt that? Does God know the answer to these questions? Ask the Holy Spirit for the answer to the following questions.

    What is my middle name? Is it Peter, Andrew, James, Philip, Thomas, Matthew, Bartholomew, Simon, Judas, Thaddaeus, James, John, or Paul, or none of the above? If none of the above, what is the correct answer?
    How many miles does my vehicle have on it?
    How much money do I have in my wallet right now?

    Did Peter know that the amount of money that Annanias brought was different than the amount he sold the land for?
     
  7. Gold Dragon

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    So Peter was 99% full of the Holy Spirit while we are only 2% full? And punishments for sins against the Holy Spirit depend on the Holy Spirit fullness meter of a person being lied to? Interesting theories but I'm not buying it.
     
  8. billwald

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    So which commanment did they violate?
     
  9. gekko

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    the 9th. thou shalt not lie.
     
  10. SpiritualMadMan

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    Nope:
    Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

    They didn't lie about their neighbors... [​IMG]

    Too bad this one isn't a Ten Commandment as it's the closest I've found to date...

    Proverbs 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

    Wow, they actually touched two things the Lord hates! In one verse...

    Take the whole passage (Proverbs 6:16-19) and they rack up even more points!

    SMM
     
  11. gekko

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    who's my neighbour SMM?

    everybody. as in the parable of the "good" samaritan.

    the pharisee asked "who's my neighbour?" and then Jesus went on to explain that everybody is his neighbour. that's esentially what he said. right?

    the scripture about annanias and sapphira says "...thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. and ananaias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost..."
     
  12. SpiritualMadMan

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    Gekko, you're coming in from the wrong point...

    The "Letter" of the Ten Commandment not our Interpretation of what it could cover...

    But, the exact meaning of the exact text... [​IMG]

    The excersize is intended to show that no set of Rules or Laws can be all encompassing...

    That there will always be the need for one more explanation or interpretation...

    Another point is, is that people who rely on the exact written code have a problem following the true intent of God's Law, if they don't have the Spirit to guide them..

    Lastly, people who rely on the written code can use the exact language to make ways around the exact writing of a code...

    This is something that can't be done with the Law of Love in Christ Jesus...

    At least that is what I am trying to express and get across...

    mman: Your 'challenge' is one of the most foolish things I have read in my life... One day God is going to honor one of your rash oaths...

    SMM
     
  13. Eric B

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    Yeah, and to build on this point, this shows how the letter kills, because following "commandments" only, you can still sin unto death! Also, rather than "doing away with all law" as people accuse us, we see that being out from under the letter actually becomes more binding!
    So it's not about "which commandment" we keep, or which one was violated, for God's will is far more than written commandments.
     
  14. SpiritualMadMan

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    Can't argue with that! [​IMG]
     
  15. gekko

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    ecclesiastes 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
     
  16. SpiritualMadMan

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    Hey, Gekko, refresh my memory...

    What side were you taking in this, anyway?

    Please elucidate the obvious and explain your useage of the above Scripture (Ecclesiastes 12:13)

    Thanks!

    SMM
     
  17. gekko

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    "so its not about "which commandment" we keep, or which one was violated, for God's will is far more than written commandments"

    the thing is - the law has been written on our hearts - and its God's will that we follow them. that verse in ecclesiastes was in response to that...
     
  18. Jacob Dahlen

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    They lied to God....
     
  19. gekko

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    haha. i like that Dahlen - nice, short, and to the point answers... i think that's what BB discussions should be more like - otherwise you get those super long posts that you dont bother to read - and when you respond to them - you obviously miss something and then there's an argument about the thing you missed and then there's this and that and this and that.... etc.

    SMM - what sides are there? what side are you on? and what does the other side believe? then i'll answer your question to more detail.
     
  20. SpiritualMadMan

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    As to which side I am on... I really liked your post... :D

    And, I would add that resorting to The Law places us beneath Grace, and, Grace is required for Righteousness, Justification and Salvation...

    KJV
    Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
    Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
    Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
    Galatians 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
    Galatians 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

    NIV:
    Gal 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

    Note, please that nothing here prevents a believer from using The Law as a Reference...

    The prohibition is against using The Law as Salvation Requirement, a Justification Requirement, or a Righteousness Requirement...

    It's the reliance on The Law not The Law that is what I have the problem with...

    It's adding works of The Law as a binding requirement on believers that I have a problem with...

    And, please note the Paul includes Circumcism which while codified by The Law actually predates The Law.

    And, I doubt anyone with medical training will tell you the Circumcism is a bad thing, healthwise...

    But, if you use/rely-on Circumcism in a Religious or Theological Righteousness/Justification/Salvation sense you negate Grace and become alienated from Christ.

    SMM
     

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