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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 6, 2007.
There has been much confusion as to what entails a work of man. How would you define a ‘work?’
Jn 6:28 (KJV) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
1. Paul defines work for us: "What then can we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? If Abraham was justified by works, then he has something to brag about—but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness. Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed. But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares righteous the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness" (Rom 4:1-4).
a. A work is anything a person does, expecting a wage or what is owed.
b. This is work of merit and is condemned in Scripture.
2. "In the same way, then, there is also at the present time a remnant chosen by grace. Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace" (Rom 11:5, 6).
a. Here again, for grace to be grace, works is excluded, since it wants something in return.
b. With grace there is no merit; works merit.
A 'work' is something* good done for the right reason
by a saved person.
It is good to tell people about the Gospel of Christ.
If I tell a person about the Gospel of Christ
so I can brag about winning more folks for Christ
than does Brother Heavenly Pilgrim, then I'm doing it
for a bad reason -- no good work for Ed
If I tell a person about the Gospel of Christ
because the Lord has had me cross their path;
them I'm doing it for a good reason
I first got onto a bulletin board in Late June 1984,
that was 23 years ago. I've been witnessing on
the bulletin boards for 23¼ years. Sometimes I did
it for the right reason, sometimes for the wrong. The
main witnessing is done offline (e-mail or PM) -- the
contact is made on-line. I also witness face to face.
Well, anyway, I said I'd been on bulletin boards
for awile to say -- people on bulletin boards like to
argue about OSAS (once saved, always saved) versus
not-OSAS -- and they like to do it a lot.
People really don't want to talk about Good Works
& how we arught to do them more & what they mean
& how to improve our serve & etc.
But, Dear Brother Heavenly Pilgrim,
TD Oklahoma at 1512 CDT!
you & I can discuss this and maybe even uplift
somebody. How about a total delineation &
catagorization of all Good works (starting with
the ones mentioned in the Bible, of course).
1. But using a play-on-words, Jesus says that Believing is the work of God, namely, a work that God produces; man still doesn't get any credit for that work of faith.
2. It is wrought by God.
HP: Now this is certainly a revealing passage. Would you mind giving the list your personal take as to how or why Scripture would equate ‘belief’ with a ‘work?’
Can man have evil works as well as good, or do all works automatically involve merit and that in light of good or praise?
HP: I would think it might be advantageous to all to first establish exactly what a work is, how it is formed, who is thr responsible agent for ding them, and THEN make our list. :thumbs:
Let me ask you. Can one have evil works as well as good works?
We are saved by grace
We are saved to do Good Works
Titus 3:8 (KJV1611 Edition):
This is a faithfull saying, and these things
I will that thou affirme constantly, that they
which haue beleeued in God, might
be carefull to maintaine good works:
these things are good and profitable vnto men.
We are to encourage one another to
do good works:
Hebrews 10:23-24 (KJV1611 Edition):
Let vs hold fast the profession of our faith
without wauering (for he is faithfull that promised)
24 And let vs consider one another
to prouoke vnto loue, and to good workes:
BTW (by the way) we are saved by GOOD WORKS
We are saved by the good works of Messiah Yeshua
Pastors should encourage their flock to good works.
Good works should be helpful to others
and lead to the production of fruit:
Titus 3:14 (KJV1611 Edition)
And let ours also learne to maintaine
good workes for necessarie vses,
that they be not vnfruitfull.
HP: How are these ‘necessarily’ condemned in Scripture? God states that He will reward us for even giving a cup of cold water in His name. Is that not something I do? Can I not rightfully expect a reward for doing so? Is it not clearly in accordance to Scripture to do good to those around us and expect God to praise and reward us as He states He does and will?
HP: Now my dear Brother, could you be avoiding my simple questions?
HP: Can we stay focused for just a few posts?
We are not trying to address justification on this thread at least yet. We are trying to simply understand what works are. Focus Brother Ed and TCG, Focus!:thumbs:
1. Then we must differentiate between works to gain salvation and works that grow out of salvation, namely in the process of salvation.
2. Works of sanctification are commended in Scripture, for we have been saved unto them (Eph 2:8-10). But works to obtain salvation is the other gospel Paul condemns in Scripture (Gal 1:6-9).
3. At any rate, "For it is God who is working in you, enabling you both to will and to act for His good pleasure" (Phil 3:13).
I' ll try, but Justification is so tasty! :laugh:
HP: I agree.
Just the same, if we are going to understand how works affect justification, we are going to have to spend some time simply trying to plumb the depths of the issue of works, good or bad, what they entail and or what constitutes a work.
Or could it be we are cross posting?
HP: No allowed:laugh:
Can works be righteous or evil, benevolent or selfish?
Hint : 1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
I am once again reminded of that Scripture that speaks about the time when there is 'silence in heaven for about the space of a half hour.'
8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11: Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12: That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14: For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace
For once, I wish someone would address the works spoken of here in Ehp: 2, which is speaking of the works of the Law, and not just works for Salvation or Belief in Christ either. So, when we say we "believe in Christ", it does not mean the works spoken of in Eph. 2:.
Also, this scripture addresses those who don't believe that Isreal and Gentiles have already become as one.
HP: How about first addressing the question of this thread which deals in defining just what the word ‘works’ signifies. :thumbs:
We are still in the basic stage, the learning stage, as to the meaning of ‘works.’ One will never have a right conception of the Scriptures you mention until we first understand the basics.
What constitutes a work? Can a work be both evil as well as good? Does a work always constitute a judgment of God concerning it whether or not selfish and as such sinful, or benevolent, and as such in accordance to love?