What Constitutes a Work?

I think you got it backwards TC, with all respect. It says "through" faith.

 

I agree!!!

I'm jumping in this conversation late in the 9th so excuse me if I say somthing that has already been stated.

If Faith is a work (which I agree), then Repentance would be a work as well (i.e. something that man does) and is it necessary for salvation as well?

 

1. I don't teach force coercion. I believe man must respond freely in saving faith, for that is what we see in Scripture (conversions in Acts).

2. I have not problem in saying man is "doing" something in response to the gospel call, as long as that "doing" is not the type that Paul ferociously condemns (Rom 4:1-4; Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8, 9).

 

1. Well, I think in the first part of the statement I said "saved by grace through faith."

2. But in another place we read, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law" (Rom 3:28).

 

You know TC;, I think we as a whole often fail to realize when it is speaking of works, it means the works of the Law, don't you?

 

1. Yes, in Rom 3:28 it is an obvious reference to the Law, but in Rom 4:1-5, there was no Law yet Paul spoke of works in a condemning manner.

2. There was no Law of Rom 3:28 in Abraham's time yet Paul was Abraham was justified by faith and not by works of any kind.

 

1. They had a law written on their hearts but it certainly was not the Mosaic Law (Rom 2; Gal 3).

2. Indeed, Abraham believe God and that was credited as Rigtheousness (Rom 4).

3. James speaks of the testing of Abraham's faith and the vindication of a faith he already possessed and was justified by (Gen 22:1).

4. So I have no need of belittling James.

 

romans 3 speaks of "works of the law apart from faith".

And that is "always bad".

But the NT also speaks of "good works" -- question. Is that always bad?? Look it up.

in Christ,

Bob

 

1. I believe in using the Bible to interpret the Bible. Gen 22 which relates the offering of Isaac by Abraham begins: "Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham," and we know the rest of the story.

2. To this James refers to make his point about being justified by works as a proof of one's faith.

3. "But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without works, and I will show you faith from my works" (v.18).

a. This is built on v. 14. If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

b. Abraham was already justified years before the accounts of Genesis 22. He was justified in Gen 15:6, but was put to the test in Gen 22.

4. That is clear to me.

 

HP,

If you want to boast about the fact that you exercise faith as a work and therefore God owed you salvation, go ahead. But I would do no such thing. I believe in Eph 2:8, 9:

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift— not from works, so that no one can boast."

 

1. I believe that those whom God has justified He will glorify (Rom 8:30).

2. Then, you have nothing to worry about.

 

I guess quoting Rom 8:30 is not an ANSWER you like. It is an answer, nevertheless.

 

I'm not so sure about this, Abraham was under the priesthood of Melchisedec. Though we don't know of a law per se, we do know there must of been something in force which caused Abraham to pay tithes. I assume this was the same law that made Cane and Able give their offering.

Heb 7:1 (KJV) For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

 

Paul makes an argument that before the Law of Moses was given to the Jews (Rom 2), a law was given to the Gentiles, which was written on their hearts.

 

When you say "condition" do you mean "We repent because we are saved" or "We are saved because we Repent"?