What constitutes "marriage"?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by menageriekeeper, Apr 9, 2006.

  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
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    I pulled this quote out of a post on another thread. I'm not exactly pulling it out of context and will put the link to the thread below.

    What struck me was that I would never consider two people married just because the man stayed with the relationship. Soooooo, lets think about this for a moment. Is there a case where this statement could become true? Just how long would a man have to stay in a relationship before the woman became wife?

    link to original thread
     
  2. Gina B

    Gina B
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    It works both ways.
    My opinion is that when two people decide to be man and wife to each other, they are man and wife.

    Whether or not they admit it. There is no "faking" it, it's always real.

    You live together, you are intimate , you're married.

    I take it a step further and say if you are intimate, you're married. You don't even have to live together. This does not include anything except mutual consent between two people who understand what they are doing.

    I don't believe the government has to be involved at all.

    I don't believe that the government can perform a spiritually binding marriage.

    I don't believe that if the government performs a marriage, it has any automatic validity in the eyes of anyone but those in the physical, earthly courts.

    I stand by what I have always said on here...it is not illegal for a man and woman to live as husband and wife without the consent of the court. It's simply not recognized by the courts, and that ain't illegal. A marriage is perfectly valid without the interference/inclusion of the state/courts/other government agencies.

    Have I ever mentioned this before? [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [ April 10, 2006, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
     
  3. menageriekeeper

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    Forget the government, what about a preacher!?
     
  4. le bel

    le bel
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    Um, yeah, no preacher? So for the five years my mother shacked up with her last boy friend, they were married?

    Yes, when someone gets intimate with another that essentially makes them married.

    I'm not catching on. Is there no involvement with the church?
     
  5. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Gina...I for one will readily agree with your "one flesh" definition of marriage....although my wife and I DID go to the preacher and have the "ceremony" just to satisfy the laws of the state we live in AND publicly "legitimise" our union before our church fellowship.I do believe she and I were married the moment we committed to each other and DEFINITELY so as soon as we joined flesh.It was fully consummated in God's eyes at that point in my opinion.That's why all those women that Solomon had are called in the bible his WIVES.I personally think that many of these preachers who are so DOWN on divorced people need to take a look back and see if THEY are qualified to pastor in that light.Truth be known....many of us MAY HAVE many wives....or husbands...in the biblical sense.This is in the technically SCRIPTURAL sense....NOT the technically RIGHTEOUS sense.Think about it.It's a far deeper subject than our modern day pharisees are willing to deal with.

    Greg Sr.
     
  6. le bel

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    Thanks for explaining your POV.
     
  7. le bel

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    Honest question: does remaining pure or chaste refer to having an actual marriage ceremony before God or just a couple believing themselves to be married?

    If say one feels she and her boyfriend were married because it's what they want, does it make it so? Once they become intimate is it fornication or is it a marital act because they "believe" or want to be husband and wife.

    At what point is one committed? Engaged?
     
  8. menageriekeeper

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    I'm with Le Bel, does shackin' really constitute marriage?
     
  9. BillyMac

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    By your definition then, a man and a woman are married and one or the other commits adultry. So does that mean s/he is physically bonded to the third person??? Spiritually???

    If it does and it is bound on earth then is it also bound in heaven??? My meaning is "spiritually bound" on earth and in heaven???
     
  10. bapmom

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    "shackin' up" cannot mean marriage. Jesus talking to the woman at the well clearly said that the man she was then with was NOT her husband. She had had 5 husbands before that....so there had to have been some difference between her relationship with those first 5 and this 6th man who she was then with. She wasn't married to the 6th man. But she was to the first 5.

    Also, King David had all sorts of wives, too. Bathsheba is NOT called David's wife until AFTER he had had Uriah killed. This was AFTER the act of adultery had been committed and the Bible said that THEN David took her and MADE her his wife. They had to GET married, even though they had had an intimate act beforehand.
     
  11. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    COMMITMENT constitutes marriage....and the joining of FLESH COSUMMATES that commitment.You'll find that repeatedly in the Old Testament.....there is very little (if anything) said about ANY kind of ceremony in the OT.There is mention of one at the wedding feast in Cana I believe in the NT.As for "shacking"....most folks that practice shacking these days have little or no regard for what God would think anyway and the primary reason most of them are shacking is to be able to "sample" the "goods" BEFORE they agree to any commitment.That would definitely constitute some form of FORNICATION that God would never approve of.....that's my opinion anyway.

    Greg Sr.
     
  12. Aaron

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    A marriage is the union of a man and a woman in a covenant relationship ratified by an oath or vow. There is no other way to enter into a marriage.

    Sex does not equal marriage.
    Cohabitation (chambering, Rom. 13:13) does not equal marriage.

    Since marriage creates the basic unit of society, the family, and since the general welfare of the state is directly dependent on the health of the family, the state has a compelling interest in governing marriage, that is in recognizing and solemnizing a legitimate union and enforcing its maintenance, and in punishing those who abuse or otherwise jeapordize the sanctity of the institution.
     
  13. le bel

    le bel
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    These were always my thoughts.
     
  14. Gina B

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    There are a number of ways to complicate the clear and simple idea of marriage given to us by our Father. However, by throwing a wrench in and declaring the concept wrong because it can't be worked around when you mess it up does not make the concept wrong.

    What was the relationship between the man Jesus spoke of to the woman at the well? Perhaps he was a prospect for her, yet they had not consummated the relationship. Perhaps it was not a relationship at all. Then again, maybe it was, and for purposes we do not understand, he was not considered her husband.

    However, we do know that in the majority of situations, a biblical marriage consisted of declaring a commitment, and then the deal was sealed when the couple joined together as one.

    The sins we commit that complicate the idea of marriage may never be answered until we face our Father and find out. I'm quite sure that a married man can be spiritually considered as having another wife, and also of fornication. A second wife or husband IS adultery and fornication. Perhaps there are times when a relationship isn't considered a marriage.

    That's what sin does. It muddies everything and causes confusion. Who is the author of confusion, btw?

    For the person who commented on things being sealed in heaven by what is done on earth: I believe you are referring to a special mandate that applied to the disciple who was to set up the church on earth. The orders were lawful as they came from heaven, meant to be established on earth for the church, and these laws would not, did not, and will not change in our dispensation. Point is, I think you were using the term "bound in heaven" wrong. It doesn't go with this concept. Recognized by the Father and considered law and binding are two completely different concepts.
     
  15. donnA

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    I'm with bapmom on this one. This is clearly what scriptures teaches.
     
  16. Frenchy

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    thanks bapmom for those scriptures [​IMG]

    i am going to takes God's word on this one, instead of personal opinions. but then again i usually do [​IMG]
     
  17. Pipedude

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    "Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh."

    Marriages in the Bible will display these characteristics: </font>
    • Public leaving</font>
    • Public cleaving</font>
    • Private consummation</font>
    The custom/law in a society determines what the public leaving and cleaving looks like. Those who marry, do that. Those who shack up, don't. They don't for a reason, and that reason is they want to live together without being married.
     
  18. Frenchy

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    "The Bible speaks of God being "witness between thee and the wife of thy youth." Also, "…the wife of thy covenant" (Mal. 2: 14). One commentator wrote regarding Bible marriages: "The actual marriage seems to have been accompanied by certain solemn promises and blessings (The Pulpit Commentary, vol. 14, on Malachi 2: 14). The totality of the teaching of the Bible shows what we call the "exchanging of vows." I stress this facet of marriage to say there is a manifest difference between marriage and just living together in fornication.

    We are taught to obey civil laws when they do not collide with God's laws, as such (Rom. 13: 1-7, Acts 5: 29). As a rule, all counties, States, and municipalities have laws relative to marriage - issuance of marriage license, filing of license, etc. Such civil practice is good because it creates order, intent, and record."

    http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTAROO3.htm
     
  19. Frenchy

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    Pipedude and i are in agreement, posting at the same time [​IMG]
     
  20. Gina B

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    Another copy and paste? Wow.

    Ok, to the author of the copy and paste:

    There is no civil law that states that a marriage is not recognized by God unless it is recognized by the state.
    There is no law that says a man and woman are not married in God's eyes unless they are married by the state.
    There is no law that states a man and woman must be married before they can live together, or become intimate.

    Marriage is not a law.
    Nobody HAS to get married. The state may not recognize it, but unless you're interested in the benefits the civil laws provide to married couples, there is absolutely no obligation to involve the government in your marriage.

    Such civil practice may have been nice in the past, but it wasn't needed. It will have even less value soon, when said government recognizes my marriage to an husband, then turns around and recognizes the marriage of a woman to a woman.

    What need has a Christian to have such a government condone their marriage? Does anyone here seriously believe that the authority of such have any spiritual power over the children of the Most High?
     

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