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Featured What day is the Lord's Day according to Scripture?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Apr 19, 2013.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    As I said before - I accept the "sola scriptura" form of doctrinal testing - just not the "sola name calling" substitute for it.

    And as the quote by D.L Moody points to agreement with the Baptist Confession as quoted earlier - in support of the Ten Commandments given in Eden including the 4th commandment - being even more important today than in days passed -- I cannot be blamed for someone posting against their own Baptist confession and against D.L. Moody when they find it "inconvenient" to agree with them.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #81 BobRyan, Apr 26, 2013
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    How odd that it is left to Eliyahu and me to defend the Bible basis for the Baptist confession. You would think at least one or two Baptists would want to promote the Bible basis for their confession.

     
    #82 BobRyan, Apr 26, 2013
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    think that its due to baptists wanting to quote the bible itself as the primary/ONLY authority text, not basing it upon either Confessions nor prophetesses!
     
    #83 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2013
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    again, the Sabbath NOT given by god to the Church, 9 of the Commandments were quoted in use in the church as the moral aspect of the nature of God expressed, as what Christians shoudl keep from doing, but the sabbath as the jews had it establishe din israel by God NOT brought iver intothe new coveannt!

    Do you say that it is because the prophetess had that revealtion?"

    Do you hold that God excuses me for Sunday worship due to my ignorance, but that there will be a time that ifpersisiting to do that, will be mark of the beast?
     
    #84 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2013
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Go on, Bob Ryan!

    It is not odd at all that you do not see how that you only promote the Baptists' defence of their confession, and ruin your own SDA basis to 'defend the Bible', for, for YEARS now on end, you unlawfully and FRUITLESS, abuse the referencing by innocent good men to the Fourth and Ten Commandments.
     
    #85 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Apr 26, 2013
  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    You are arguing against your own conscience and better knowing, Jeshua1, and you KNOW it!

    Such nonsensensical simply untrue arrogations as >the Sabbath NOT given by god to the Church< and >NOT brought iver intothe new coveannt!< ---and I am not referring to your bad spelling or bad grammar.

     
    #86 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Apr 26, 2013
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I am fine with that and who knows how many Baptists actually don't even agree with the orthodox Baptist confession of the 17th century. Again I am ok with that.

    But you would think that at least "some" would want to affirm the Bible basis for it.

    Non-Baptists can't be the only ones willing to do it.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #87 BobRyan, Apr 26, 2013
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The Sabbath commandment is one of the Ten Commandments.

    It is embedded in God's last warning to mankind in Rev 14:6-7.

    6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


    This is so clear that even D.L. Moody puts it this way -

    ==============

    Originally Posted by D.L Moody
    The Fourth Commandment

    Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.


    THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

    I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
    "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
    It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

    The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

    I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

    The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
    http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The...ents_Text.html
    ======================================





    That 9 commandment idea of yours is only correct because no part of the 3rd commandment not to take God's name in vain is ever quoted in any part of it - in the NT. But fortunately for Christians there is no rule in the Bible of the form "whatever is not repeated must be deleted" when it comes to the Word of God.

    So the Baptist confession remains true - all Ten Commandments are still binding.

    Not saying all Baptist will accept their own confession in that regard - just saying that I find it "instructive" on that point.

    The "New Covenant" is given to us in Jeremiah 31:33 and quoted by Paul in Hebrew 8. It promises that the "LAW OF GOD" will be written on the mind and heart.

    Now every Bible student doing good exegesis (Baptist or not) knows that that you take a look at the author and his readers to get the context and meaning for his words.

    There is no way Jeremiah or his readers where imagining "the 4th commandment is not part of the Law of God in this case".

    And I think we all get that. Even those who do not agree with the Baptist Confession as quoted below.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #88 BobRyan, Apr 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2013
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    That verse does not mean what you impose on it. The passage of scripture is not the issue. The very odd and ridiculous manner in which you use it is what causes heads to shake.
     
    #89 Revmitchell, Apr 26, 2013
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    And you abuse this Scripture worse than Eliyahu or Bob Ryan, simply discarding it for worthless knit-picking.

    This text says what Jesus meant to say, and that is, Every iota and word and phrase and the whole they all together make, which He, the ALL in all fulfilling FULLNESS of GOD fulfilled, would “PASS AWAY” in HIMSELF—GOD; and HIS end would be the END of all Law-of-God. For in Jesus Christ the WORD-LAW of God was crucified and slaughtered and killed and like the leaven and firstborn in Egypt was REMOVED from the land of the living, and IN HIM—HIMSELF, the Law not of men but of GOD, and heaven and earth God created, passed away and was abolished and annihilated and was FULFILLED.

    But look at you all, laughing at another joke of mine. But Jesus told no jokes when He spoke GOD’S WORD OR ACTED GOD’S WORD when HE was nailed to the cross and they like the dirt and scum of the earth abolished HIM. I tell no jokes either, because I see JESUS gave Himself to be crucified, JESUS who laid down his own Life and JESUS whose very own Body HE would to the LAW be BURIED, while all humanity prayed and tried its best that his flesh even, should pass away in corruption and forgetfulness. But “God with an oath had sworn to Him that his soul would not be left in HELL [ON THE CROSS], neither his flesh would see corruption or would PASS AWAY [in the GRAVE].” So Jesus fulfilled every IOTA AND TITTLE OF GOD’S ETERNAL LAW-BY-OATH.
     
    #90 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Apr 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2013
  11. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Why is it ridiculous?
    Is it because I didn't distort it as you do the Words of the Lord?

    Isn't your Id the abbreviation of Reverend Mitchel?

    I do remember it since I was already an active member here when you first joined here.

    Until when, will you use the name stolen from God?

    Read here!

    Psalm 111:9

    He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend [is] his name

    Are you ashamed of being called Brother?

    Read here!

    Matthew 23:8
    But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.


    Do you know the Pastors and Priests are so-called Nicolaitans( Rev 2:6, 15)?

    They are ! Nicolatans mean Ruling Class over the Lay people as it is the combination of the Νικαω - λαοσ ! It was self-explanatory and therefore the Bible didn't have to explain about it!

    Jesus hates the doctrines and deeds of Nicolaitans!( Rev 2:6, 15)

    Rev 2:15

    So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.


    Your interpretation may be ridiculous and rudimental because of your arrogance! You may be sitting on the seat of your church where the Lord Jesus Christ should sit.


    My posts are only over 4,000 but you should remember mine dealt with mostly heavy issues with lengthy descriptions though I have been away from BB for 5 years. Don't boast your numbers of posts.
     
    #91 Eliyahu, Apr 27, 2013
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Obviously both the Westminster confession and the Baptist confession differ with your idea at that point.

    Let's look at some of the Bible reason why they may be doing that.



    Matthew 5


    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


    Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

    1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

    1John 5:2 "Keep the Commandments of God".


    Rev 14:12 "Keep the Commandments of God and faith in Jesus"

    Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" a statement only true within the unit of the Ten Commandments.

    James 2 - He who is guilty of breaking one - is guilty of breaking all.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #92 BobRyan, Apr 27, 2013
  13. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    You all the participants here must view the whole things without preconception of SDA, because

    - there have been Sabbath-Keepers or Assemblies gathering on Saturdays throughout the history, before Ellen White or SDA

    - Messianic Jews dare to die to preserve their faith and would die to keep the Sunday worship if the Sabbath was abolished and they should worship on Sundays. However they have confirmed and believed that Sabbath is not changed at all. Only the inner concept may differ among them.
    Questions could be Sabbathkeeping or just simply gathering on Saturdays.

    Gathering on Saturdays or Sundays is not an issue of SDA, but what matters is whether we stay with the tradition set up by RCC or wiith Biblical practices.
     
    #93 Eliyahu, Apr 27, 2013
  14. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Matthew 5 :18-19

    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven


    The verse 18 teaches us :

    The Law will be still valid even after the Cross! Jesus didn't say that one jot( Jud) or Tittle( Edge of the Hebrew Alphabet) of the Torah will pass away from the Torah until He finish the Great Work at the Cross.

    But He said it will not pass away from the Law until Heaven and Earth Pass.

    Have the Heaven and Earth Passed away already?


    Verse 19 tells us this:

    Not the unbelievers, but the teachers among the believers will ignore the Law and they will teach the others to do the same thing as they do.
    Such people will nevertheless go to the Heaven because the salvation doesn't depend on the works of the Law, but on the precious Blood of the Lord Jesus.
    However, such people will be regarded the least among the Believers in Heaven though they are in the Heaven.

    Then do we have to be keeping the Law one by one ?

    Nope! We just believe that the Holy Spirit will lead us to the Truth, then He will do it!

    It is a matter of Faith, not the works!


    Where are you standing? I am not standing on SDA, but on the Words of God!
     
    #94 Eliyahu, Apr 27, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  15. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    All are guilty of all. Case closed.
     
    #95 Alcott, Apr 27, 2013
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    we are under a new Covenant and superior covenant, why do you long so much for one that had ben made obsoleted by the Cross, andpassed away now?

    hebrews explains it best, as author under inspiration of God, states that christians share in the Sabbath, restof God...

    NOT the saturday resting, but that in the person and work of chrsit done on our behalf, we can enjoy the rest of ceasing from trying to keep the law to get approval of god, resting in his finished work to secure salvation for us!

    THAt is the sabbath day rest for chrisitians today!
     
    #96 Yeshua1, Apr 27, 2013
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We obey the commands of the lord in the NT out of our love and thanksgiving for what he did on our behalf, to get his blessings, to walk in his Will and plans...

    NOT to either keep or get saved!

    IF you fail to keep the Sat sabbath, would you be lost?
    IF you speak out against false prophetess, would you be lost?
    If you refused to keep OT rules, would you be lost?
     
    #97 Yeshua1, Apr 27, 2013
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    can the SDA person keep the sabbath SAME fashion the OT jews were required to?
     
    #98 Yeshua1, Apr 27, 2013
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In James 2 - the instruction there is to "live and act as those who ARE to be judged" by that Law and not to show partiality or break any other part of the Law of God "for He who said do not commit adultery ALSO SAID do not commit Murder".

    James 2 never leads the reader the option of "Well I am always breaking something so no need to pay attention here".

    I think we can all see that when we read that chapter.

    Certainly that fits with the Baptist Confession and the Westminster confessions.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #99 BobRyan, Apr 27, 2013
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    So the Baptist confession remains true - all Ten Commandments are still binding.

    Not saying all Baptist will accept their own confession in that regard - just saying that I find it "instructive" on that point.

    The "New Covenant" is given to us in Jeremiah 31:33 and quoted by Paul in Hebrew 8. It promises that the "LAW OF GOD" will be written on the mind and heart.

    Now every Bible student doing good exegesis (Baptist or not) knows that that you take a look at the author and his readers to get the context and meaning for his words.

    There is no way Jeremiah or his readers where imagining "the 4th commandment is not part of the Law of God in this case".

    And I think we all get that. Even those who do not agree with the Baptist Confession as quoted below.

    Indeed as Paul points out in Hebrews 8 where he tells us that the Jer 31:31-33 New Covenant given long before the cross - is the one for Christians even to this very day.

    Under that NEW Covenant (if we who say we are under the New Covenant are also willing to read the words OF the New Covenant) then we have the LAW of God as stated in Jer 31 "Written on the mind and on the heart".

    even as David said in Ps 119 "Thy Law have I hidden in my heart that I may not sin against Thee".

    Thus the Westminster confession, the Baptist Confession, D.L. Moody, R.C Sproul and Andy Stanley are right to affirm the continued application of the Ten Commandments (including the 4th one)- given to Adam in Eden and still binding on Christians to this very day.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #100 BobRyan, Apr 27, 2013
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