What did jesus mean By "let this Cup pass By me?"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    As he was asking the ftaher to allow the cup to pass by Him, not to have to have it?

    What was that Cup, and what bothered jesus so much that the Bible said that while int he garden his sweat become as if blood down his face?
     
  2. Jkdbuck76

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    He wasn't afraid of death. He was disgusted at the thought of taking our sins upon himself and to have God the Father turn His back on him. Jesus drank that bitter cup of our sins and God's wrath.
     
  3. convicted1

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    I believe Jesus the Man, dreaded what He knew was about to happen to Him. He prayed till His sweat became as great drops of blood. But He came to fulfill His Father's will.
     
  4. percho

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    He was striving against the sin of not being obedient unto death.
     
  5. Rippon

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    It was the awesome responsibility of taking all of His Father's wrath upon Himself. He was dreading what was to come,but knowing that it was to happen. He felt the weight of the immense task before Him.

    He was overwhelmed with anguish and distress.

    Luke 22:43 and 44 most likely was not in the original. It's printed in my edition of the 2011 NIV --but I think should have been blocked-off or the font should have been reduced in size. As it is,there is only a footnote saying :"Many early manuscripts do not have verses 43 and 44." Papyri 75 from around 200AD doesn't have it --and yet that particular manuscript is regarded as excellent. That scribe took a lot of care in his work.
     
  6. Rippon

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    Using the word "disgusted" I don't think is proper or suitable. Jesus was distressed and in anguish. But I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly.
     
  7. convicted1

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    I personally believe that Jesus dreaded death, being a man as well as God. He dreaded the whipping, the crown of thorns being thrusted upon His head. The spikes that would nail His hands and feet to the cross. Most of all, I believe He dreaded being left alone for those six hours when God had to turn His back upon His Son, seeing that He had became sin for us. He was sinless, yet, He became sin, when He took our sins upon His flesh, nailing them to the cross.
     
  8. freeatlast

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    He was about to take sin on Himself and realize the wrath of God. He had never known sin and did not want to know it and He did not want the cup of wrath of God poured out on Him.
     
  9. John of Japan

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    I did a paper on this once with the proposition that the cup represented death right there in the Garden. The bloody sweat is a rare medical condition caused by extreme stress.

    For the cup to be death on the cross, and Christ to be asking the Father to deliver Him from the cross, Christ would have been praying to make Himself a false prophet, since He had prophesied His own death on the cross.
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    It may help to understand this passage in the light of Hebrew 12:3-4

    3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
    4 ¶ Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.


    Jesus spent his entire life opposing sin but now he was about to be "made sin" that you and I might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    This is the "contradiction of sinners against himself"

    It was perfectly righteous for Christ to war against sin all his life

    It was perfectly righteous for a sinless Christ now to ask not to be made the very thing he hated and opposed - to become sin - if there was some other way to save man rather than becoming what he hated most - "sin"!
     
  11. John of Japan

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    You are correct to the extent that the idea of being made sin caused incredible stress to Christ, resulting in the bloody sweat, a rare condition called hematidrosis. However, He was not asking to be delivered from dying on the cross.

    Christ had "set his face towards Jerusalem." He had prophesied His own death on the cross. If Christ was asking not to die on the cross, He was praying to become a false prophet.

    We learn in Heb. 5:7 that Christ prayed to be delivered from death, and the Father answered, and this could only have happened in the Garden, not on the cross.: "Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared."
     
  12. John of Japan

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    Here is a quote about a documented death from hematidrosis. So Christ could have died in the Garden from hematidrosis, and was thus praying not to die in the Garden of Eden from this stress related medical condition.
     
  13. percho

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    I agree with you in that there is a correlation of what you have stated and Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin (under sin brings death) even to Jesus the Christ who was made to be sin for us by his obedience unto death. And Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

    This is what brought the faith through which grace is applied unto salvation. We are given God's grace through the faith of Jesus. We are justified (Made the righteousness of God) by the blood of Jesus ='s justified by the faith of Christ.
     
  14. Zenas

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    Good and interesting answers. I have a related question. Why did He use the word "cup" as opposed to trial, testing, ordeal, temptation, etc.? In the Greek is it the same word as is used for a container of liquid? Does the Greek vernacular of that day allow for such a translation or is this usage unique to Jesus in the Gospels? Some of you Greek scholars, please shine some light on these questions.
     
  15. John of Japan

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    Yes, the word cup is the same as for a drinking cup, which by the way in Roman times often looked much like a mug nowadays. Christ was using the word as a metaphor for suffering. The OT sometimes uses "cup" in a similar way, so it was a common Jewish metaphor (Ps. 11:6, 75:8, etc.).
     
  16. percho

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    Did that suffering include unto death? Was death the end result of the suffering?

    I ask that in this context, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:
     
    #16 percho, Dec 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2011
  17. John of Japan

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    I don't think it necessarily means death in this case, looking at its usage in the NT. The word "cup" is actually a different metaphor in different passages (see Matt. 23:25-26, for example). So context must determine meaning, and I don't see death in the context of the passage you gave.
     
  18. percho

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    I can go along with that. Lets look some more. Let's say cup meant suffer but that cup and suffer did not mean death in the quoted context.

    At the water baptism of Jesus it is stated, "Then he suffered him".

    Does that mean put him under representing death?
    followed by; And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:

    Is the cup of, take this cup from me, seen there?
     
  19. John of Japan

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    No, there is no connection in this case. The passage about the baptism of Jesus is using the term suffering to translate the Greek aphiemi, which means "to allow" in this context. The 1611 English word "suffer" meant "to allow" with no meaning of physical or emotional pain.
     
  20. percho

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    I'll agree with you in that case.

    Would you agree that this cup of which Jesus had to partake had something to do with the fury, and or wrath. and or indignation of God?

    Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

    I assume you think the Father saved him from death in the garden that night and therefore he was able to die the following afternoon?

    The Father answered him after by the things he suffered he learned obedience unto death even the death of the cross. Three days and three nights later.

    Do you think the resurrection from the dead was being saved from death?

    Just as in Psalm 16 Peter said David was speaking as a prophet about the Christ, is Psalm 116 a prophesy about the Christ or was David writing about himself?
     

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