Featured What Did jesus mean" Upon This Rock, I Will Build my Church?"

Jude settles this in 25 verses. Jesus confirms it: "I will never leave you nor forsake you."

Look for the ones who believe in salvation by faith alone by grace alone and do not baptize their infants. This narrows the field considerably. Many of them have been killed. God has preseved a remnant.

It is going to rain a lot--fire and brimstone.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of The Living God.

Will our theologies survive?

Where will we be in 100 years?

Peace,

Bro. James

 

The New Testament is prophetic concerning the future of New Testament Congregations as well as apostasy.

1. Apostate Christianity will be in the majority or the "many" - Mt. 7:13; 21-23
2. New Testament Christianity will be in the minority - Mt. 7:14

This is consistent with the parable of the tares where at the end of the world the true seed are "hid" among the apostate majority - Mt. 13:43-44

This is consistent with the Lord's comment upon the parable of persistence in faithfulness - Luke 18:8

This is consistent with Apostolic warnings about the end times - 1 Tim. 4:1; 2 Thes. 2:3; 2 Tim. 3:1,12

1. Apostate Theocratic religion will be the persecuter and killer of N.T. Christianity - Jn. 16:1-4; Rev. 17:6; 18:4,20,24

2. New Testament Christianity will be persectued and killed

2 Tim. 3:1 1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come......
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

New Testament Christianity will be the objects of reproach and ridicule and distortion (Mt. 5:10-12) in contrast to the "many" whose soteriology is composed of faith in Christ plus their good works performed in his name (Mt. 7:13,22).

Catholocism must be categorized as the "many" due to its size and due to its soteriological profession that matches perfectly the profession of those in Matthew 7:22.

Cathlocism must be categorized as the persecutor and killer of others due to its bloody history.

Catholicism must be categorized as the perverter and distorter of others as all who opposed her were called heretics and their teachings destroyed and perverted in order to bring them under the secular laws to kill.

Inspired prophetic History takes precedence over Catholic controlled uninspired history as the Catholic controlled uninspired history confirms the inspired prophetic History's description of Catholicism and its growth and persecution of others.

 

He meant he strayed a visible church called the catholic church

 

Your comment does not make any more sense than your theology. The only "visible" church in the New Testament is a LOCAL visible congregation addressed throughout the scriptures where it is geographically located.

 

Notice he said church not churches

So unless you claim he stated the southern baptist hillbilly yall church
What one

CHURCH did he start

 

Notice he said "the church" in Matthew 18:17 but the context demonstrates clearly it is a local visible congregation!

Also notice he said "churches" in Revelatin 2-3; 22:16

Hence, the KIND of church He built in Matthew 16:18 is the same in KIND he goes on the next 22 times he uses the word "church" to speak about.

On the other hand you and the Protestants have one kind of church in Matthew 16:18 - UNIVERSAL but another kind of church he goes on to speak about the next 22 times he uses the same term - "churches."

The Baptist position is the ONLY consistent position for the use of ekklesia by Christ in all 23 of his uses of that term. The church He built is the same in kind he goes on to speak about the next 22 times - a local visible INSTITUTION. He uses the institutional sense of "ekklesia" in Matthwe 16:18 and then speaks of it in its CONCRETE form the next 22 times. In all cases it is a LOCAL and VISIBLE congregational body of baptized believers. What he built he continues to talk about - the SAME KIND and thus "ONE BODY" in kind and "one body" in number in reference to the reader's veiwpoint there is for the reader only "one body" IN NUMBER and that is the "one" the reader's membership resides in, which is local and visible.

 

The New Testament churches were predicted to be the object of persecution, ridicule, and distortion by the predicted apostate form of Christianity which in addition to the other characteristics listed above would be a state church - Rev. 17:1-5.

The metaphor "bride" conveys faithfulness whereas the metaphor "whore" conveys apostate, unfaithfulness (2 Cor. 11:2-4). Many New Testament congregations started out as metaphorical "chaste" virgins (2 Cor. 11:2) but were "corrupted" by false doctrine and apostatized (2 Cor. 11:3-4; Rev. 17) and one of the first to apostatize was the churches at Rome - Rev. 17:18.

 

The contextual factors clearly prove that Peter was not the first pope and that Peter was not the "rock" upon which the institutional church was founded and that in and of itself exposes all of Catholicism as an apostate religion.

 

John the last living apostle stated that the "spirit of antichrist" was then present at work within professing Christendom at the time he wrote (1 Jn. 2:17-18) and the so-called Church Fathers is the recorded History of the continuing influence and work of the "spirit of antichrist."

 

Yes the local visible congregation

Our lady of sorrows in snoqualmie wa
Saint Joseph's in penfield new York
And so on and so on
In every town in the entire world

 

Is the baptist church in every town in the world

Nope

 

Is the Catholic church in every town in the world?

Nope!

Another stupid response! Deal with the evidence if you can?

 

Again, the biblical evidence exposes Catholocism for what it is - apostasy.

 

Someone once told me that he finally figured out why people sometimes refer to it as the invisible church:

Because you won't SEE it in the Bible.

 

Excellent!

Not only you won't SEE it in the Bible, neither will you SEE any metaphor for it in the Bible as EVERY metaphor used for the church in the Bible is localized and visible in nature (house, body, candlestick, temple, etc.).

There are metaphors that could have been used if there was such a church in the Bible (wind, spirit) and there are terms to express it "invisible" "universal" etc. But the Bible never ever uses any of these to describe the church you do SEE in Scriptures.

 

Roman - Old Catholic Succession

St. Peter the Apostle -- to 64 A.D.
St. Linus -- 67 to 76
St. Anacletus -- 76 to 91
St. Clement I -- 91 to 101
St. Evaristus -- 100 to 109
St. Alexander I -- 109 to 116
St. Sixtus I -- 116 to 125
St. Telesphorus -- 125 to 136
St. Hyginus -- 138 to 140
St. Pius I -- 140 to 155
St. Anicetus -- 155 to 166
St. Soter -- 166 to 174
St. Eleutherius -- 174 to 189
St. Victor I -- 189 to 198
St. Zephyrinus -- 198 to 217
St. Callistus I -- 217 to 222
St. Urban I -- 222 to 230
St. Pontian -- July 21, 230 to Sept. 28, 235
St. Anterus -- Nov. 21, 235 to Jan. 20, 236
St. Fabian -- Jan. 10, 236 to Jan. 20, 250
St. Cornelius -- Mar. 251 to June 253
St. Lucius I -- June 25, 253 to March 5, 254
St. Stephen I -- May 12, 254 to Aug. 2, 257
St. Sixtus II -- Aug. 30, 257 to Aug. 6, 258
St. Dionysius -- July 22, 259 to Dec. 26, 268
St. Felix I -- Jan. 5, 269 to Dec. 30, 274
St. Eutychian -- Jan. 4, 275 to Dec. 7, 283
St. Caius -- Dec. 17, 283 to Apr. 25, 296
St. Marcellinus -- June 30, 296 to Oct. 25, 304
St. Marcellus I -- May 27, 306 to Jan. 16, 308
St. Eusebius -- Apr. 18, 310 to Aug. 17, 310
St. Miltiades -- July 2, 311 to Jan. 11, 314
St. Silvester -- Jan. 31, 314 to Dec. 31, 335
St. Mark -- Jan. 18, 336 to Oct. 7, 336
St. Julius I -- Feb. 6, 337 to Apr. 12, 352
St. Liberius -- May 17, 352 to Sept. 24, 366
St. Damasus -- Oct. 1, 366 to Dec. 11, 384
St. Siricius -- Dec. 384 to Nov. 26, 399
St. Anastasius I -- Nov. 27, 399 to Dec. 19,401
St. Innocent I -- Dec. 22, 401 to Mar. 12, 417
St. Zosimus -- Mar. 18, 417 to Dec. 26, 418
St. Boniface I -- Dec. 28, 418 to Sep. 4, 422
St. Celestine I -- Sept. 10, 422 to July 27, 432
St. Sixtus III -- July 31,432 to Aug. 19, 440
St. Leo I "The Great" -- Sept. 29, 440 to Nov. 10, 461
St. Hilarus -- Nov. 19, 461 to Feb. 29, 468
St. Simplicius -- Mar. 3, 468 to Mar. 10, 483
St. Felix III -- Mar. 13, 483 to Mar. 1, 492
St. Gelasius I -- Mar. 1, 492 to Nov. 21, 496
Anastasius II -- Nov. 24, 496 to Nov. 19, 498
St. Symmachus -- Nov. 22, 498 to July 19, 514
St. Hormisdas -- July 20, 514 to Aug. 6, 523
St. John I -- Aug. 13, 523 to May 18, 526
St. Felix IV -- July 12, 526 to Sept. 22, 530
Boniface II -- Sept. 22, 530 to Oct. 17, 532
St. John II -- Jan. 2, 533 to May 8, 535
St. Agapitus I -- May 13, 535 to Apr. 22, 536
St. Silverius -- June 1, 536 to Nov. 11, 537
Vigilius -- Mar. 29, 537 to June 7, 555
Pelagius I -- Apr. 16, 556 to Mar. 4, 561
John III -- July 17, 561 to July 13, 574
Benedict I -- June 2, 575 to July 30, 579
Pelagius II -- Nov. 26, 579 to Feb. 7, 590
St. Gregory I "The Great" -- Sept. 3, 590 to Mar. 12, 604
Sabinianus -- Sept. 13, 604 to Feb. 22, 606
Boniface III -- Feb. 19 to Nov. 12, 607
St. Boniface IV -- Aug. 25, 608 to May 8, 615
St. Adeodatus I (Deusdedit) -- Oct. 19, 615 to Nov. 8, 618
Boniface V -- Dec. 23, 619 to Oct. 25, 625
Honorius I -- Oct. 27, 625 to Oct. 12, 638
Severinus -- May 28 to Aug. 2, 640
John IV -- Dec. 24, 640 to Oct. 12, 642
Theodore I -- Nov. 24, 642 to Sept. 16, 649
St. Martin I -- July 649 to May 14, 653
St. Eugenius I -- Aug. 10, 654 to June 2, 657
St. Vitalian -- July 30, 657 to Jan. 27, 672
Adeodatus II -- Apr. 11, 672 to June 17, 676
Donus -- Nov. 2, 676 to Apr. 11, 678
St. Agatho -- June 27, 678 to Jan. 10, 681
St. Leo II -- Aug. 17, 682 to July 3, 683
St. Benedict II -- June 26, 684 to May 8, 685
John V -- July 23, 685 to Aug. 2, 686
Conon -- Oct. 21, 686 to Sept. 21, 687
St. Sergius I -- Dec. 15, 687 to Sept. 8, 701
John VI -- Oct. 30, 701 to Jan. 11, 705
John VII -- Mar. 1, 705 to Oct. 18, 707
Sissinius -- Jan. 15 to Feb. 4, 708
Constantine -- Mar. 25, 708 to Apr. 9, 715
St. Gregory II -- May 19, 715 to Feb. 11, 731
St. Gregory III -- Mar. 18, 731 to Nov. 741
St. Zacharias -- Dec. 3, 741 to Mar. 15, 752
Stephen II -- Mar. 26, 752 to Apr. 26, 757
St. Paul I -- 29 May 757 to June 28, 767
Stephen III -- Aug. 1, 768 to Jan. 24, 772
Adrian I -- Feb. 1, 772 to Dec. 25, 795
St. Leo III -- Dec. 26, 795 to June 12, 816
Stephen IV -- June 22, 816 to Jan. 24, 817
St. Paschal I -- Jan. 25, 817 to Feb. 11, 824
Eugenius II -- Feb. 824 to Aug. 827
Valentine -- Aug. 827 to Sept. 827
Gregory IV -- 827 to Jan. 844
Sergius II -- Jan. 844 to Jan. 27, 847
St. Leo IV --Jan. 847 to July 17, 855
Benedict III -- July 855 to Apr. 17, 858
St. Nicholas I -- Apr. 24, 858 to Nov. 13, 867
Adrian II -- Dec. 14, 867 to Dec. 14, 872
John VIII -- Dec. 14, 872 to Dec. 16, 882
Marinus I -- Dec. 16, 882 to May 15, 884
St. Adrian III -- May 17, 884 to Sept. 885
Stephen V -- Sept. 885 to Sept. 14, 891
Formosus -- Oct. 6, 891 to Apr. 4, 896
Boniface VI -- Apr. 896 to Apr. 896
Stephen VI -- May 896 to Aug. 897
Romanus -- Aug. 897 to Nov. 897
Theodore II -- Dec. 897
John IX -- Jan. 898 to Jan. 900
Benedict IV -- Jan. 900 to July 903
Leo V -- July 903 to Sept. 903
Sergius III -- Jan. 29, 904 to Apr. 14, 911
Anastasius III -- Apr. 911 to June 913
Lando -- July 913 to Feb. 914
John X -- Mar. 914 to May 928
Leo VI -- May 928 to Dec. 928
Stephen VII -- Dec. 928 to Feb. 931
John XI -- Feb. 931 to Dec. 935
Leo VII -- Jan. 936 to July 13, 939
Stephen VIII -- July 14, 939 to Oct. 942
Marinus II -- Oct. 30, 942 to May 946
Agapetus II -- May 10, 946 to Dec. 955
John XII -- Dec. 16, 955 to May 14, 964
Leo VIII -- Dec. 4, 963 to Mar. 1, 965
Benedict V -- May 22, 964 to July 4, 966
John XIII -- Oct. 1, 965 to Sept. 6, 972
Benedict VI -- Jan. 19, 973 to June 974
Benedict VII -- Oct. 974 to July 10, 983
John XIV -- Dec. 983 to Aug. 20, 984
John XV -- Aug. 985 to March 996
Gregory V -- May 3, 996 to Feb. 18, 999
Sylvester II -- Apr. 2, 999 to May 12, 1003
John XVII -- June 1003 to Dec. 1003
John XVIII -- Jan. 1004 to July 1009
Sergius IV -- July 31, 1009 to May 12, 1012
Benedict VIII -- May 18, 1012 to Apr. 9, 1024
John XIX -- Apr. 1024 to 1032
Benedict IX -- 1032 to 1044
Sylvester III -- Jan. 20, 1045 to Feb. 10, 1045
Gregory VI -- May 5, 1045 to Feb. 1046
Clement II -- Dec. 24, 1046 to Oct. 9, 1047
Damasus II -- July 17, 1048 to Aug. 9,1048
St. Leo IX -- Feb. 12, 1049 to Apr. 19, 1054
Victor II -- Apr. 16, 1055 to July 28, 1057
Stephen IX -- Aug. 3, 1057 to Mar. 29, 1058
Nicholas II -- Jan. 24, 1059 to July 27, 1061
Alexander II -- Oct. 1, 1061 to Apr. 21, 1073
St. Gregory VII -- Apr. 22, 1073 to May 25, 1085
Blessed Victor III -- May 24, 1086 to Sept. 16, 1087
Blessed Urban II -- Mar. 12, 1088 to July 29, 1099
Paschal II -- Aug. 13, 1099 to Jan. 21, 1118
Gelasiur II -- Jan. 24, 1118 to Jan. 28, 1119
Callistus II -- Feb. 2, 1119 to Dec. 13, 1124
Honorius II -- Dec. 21, 1124 to Feb. 13, 1130
Innocent II -- Feb. 14, 1130 to Sept. 24, 1143
Celestine II -- Sept. 26, 1143 to Mar. 8, 1144
Lucius II -- Mar. 12, 1144 to Feb. 15, 1145
Blessed Eugenius III -- Feb. 15, 1145 to July 8, 1153
Anastasius IV -- July 12, 1153 to Dec. 3, 1154
Adrian IV -- Dec. 4, 1154 to Sept. 1, 1159
Alexander III -- Sept. 7, 1159 to Aug. 30, 1181
Lucius III -- Sept. 1, 1181 to Sept. 25, 1185
Urban III -- Nov. 25, 1185 to Oct. 20 1187
Gregory VIII -- Oct. 21, 1187 to Dec. 17, 1187
Clement III -- Dec. 19, 1187 to Mar. 1191
Celestine III -- Mar. 30, 1191 to Jan. 8, 1198
Innocent III -- Jan. 8, 1198 to July 16, 1216
Honorius III -- July 18, 1216 to Mar. 18, 1227
Gregory IX -- Mar. 19, 1227 to Aug. 22, 1241
Celestine IV -- Oct. 25, 1241 to Nov. 10, 1251
Innocent IV -- June 25, 1243 to Dec. 7, 1254
Alexander IV -- Dec. 12, 1254 to May 25, 1261
Urban IV -- Aug. 29, 1261 to Oct. 2, 1264
Clement IV -- Feb. 5, 1265 to Nov. 29, 1268
Blessed Gregory X -- Sept. 1, 1271 to Jan. 10, 1276
Blessed Innocent V -- Jan. 21, 1276 to June 22, 1276
Adrian V -- July 11, 1276 to Aug. 18, 1276
John XXI -- Sept. 8, 1276 to May 20, 1277
Nicholas III -- Nov. 25, 1277 to Aug. 22, 1280
Martin IV -- Feb. 2, 1281 to Mar. 28, 1285
Honorius IV -- Apr. 2, 1285 to Apr. 3, 1287
Nicholas IV -- Feb. 22, 1288 to Apr. 4, 1292
St. Celestine V (resigned) -- July 5, 1294 to Dec. 13, 1294
Boniface VIII -- Dec. 24, 1294 to Oct. 11, 1303
Blessed Benedict XI -- Oct. 22, 1303 to July 7, 1304
Clement V -- June 5, 1305 to Apr. 20, 1314
John XXII -- Aug. 7, 1305 to Dec. 4, 1334
Nicholas V -- May 12, 1328 to Aug. 5, 1330
Benedict XII -- Dec. 20, 1334 to Apr. 25, 1342
Clement VI -- May 7, 1342 to Dec. 6, 1352
Innocent VI -- Dec. 18, 1352 to Sept. 12, 1362
Blessed Urban V -- Sept. 28,1362 to Dec. 19, 1370
Gregory XI --Dec. 30, 1370 to Mar. 26, 1378


Sixtus V -- Apr. 24, 1585 to Aug. 27, 1590
Urban VII -- Sept. 15, 1590 to Sept. 27, 1590
Gregory XIV -- Dec. 5, 1590 to Oct. 16, 1591
Innocent IX -- Oct. 29, 1591 to Dec. 30, 1591
Clement VIII -- Jan. 30, 1592 to Mar. 3, 1605
Leo XI -- Apr. 1, 1605 to Apr. 27, 1605
Paul V -- May 16, 1605 to Jan. 28 1621
Gregory XV -- Feb. 9, 1621 to July 8, 1623
Urban VIII -- Aug. 6, 1623 to July 29, 1644
Innocent X -- Sept. 15, 1644 to Jan 7, 1655
Alexander VII -- Apr. 7, 1655 to May 22, 1667
Antonio Barberini -- 1657 to 1671
Michael le Tellier - 1659
Jaques Benigne de Bousseut - 1670
James Coyon de Matignon - 1693
Dominicus Marie Varlet - February 12, 1719
Peter John Meindaerts - October 17, 1739
Johannes Van Stiphout - July 11, 1745
Gaultherus Michael Van Niewenhuizen - February 7, 1768
Adrian Broekman - June 21, 1778
Johannes Jacobus Van Rhijin - July 5, 1797
Gilbertus de Jong - November 7, 1805
Wilibrordus Van Os - April 24, 1814
Johannes Bon - April 22, 1819
Johannes Van Santen - June 14, 1825
Hermanus Heijkamp - July 17, 1854
Casparus Johannes Rinkel - August 11, 1873
Geradus Gul - May 11, 1892
Arnold Harris Matthew - 28 April 1908
Rudolph Edouard de Landes Berghes - 29 June 1913
Henry Carmel Carfora - 4 October 1916
Earl Anglin Lawrence James - 17 June 1945
Grant Timothy Billet - 25 December 1950
Norman Richard Parr - 23 October 1979
Maurice Darryl McCormick - 14 July 1991
Rodney P. Rickard - April 26, 1997
Wil Michael Wrenn - May 10, 2003

http://www.celtic-anabaptist-ministries.com/additional_lines_of_succession.html

It looked pretty complete to me.

 

It not only looks pretty complete to me but completly built upon the same faulty foundation - Peter. Hence, the argument is only as good as the premise and the premise is unbiblical.

 

It is faulty. Thus my question to WM, why should I believe Michael Wrenn's succession (given above) any more than the RCC's as they both point to the same Peter in Rome, of whom we have no evidence of being in Rome in the first place.

 

The local congregation at Corinth was so describe by this metaphor (2 Cor. 11:2).

Answer this question:

How can any Church be a TRUE church if that church INCLUDES what Christ commanded His churches to EXCLUDE?

His churches are forbidden to INCLUDE unbaptized believers but YOUR CHURCH includes them.

His churches are forbidden to INCLUDE those who oppose sound doctrine and practice (2 Thes. 3:6) but YOUR CHURCH includes them.

His churches are forbidden to INCLUDE division and immoral Christians (1 Cor. 5; 11:17-19; 2 Thes. 3:6) but YOUR CHURCH includes them.