What did Jesus mean when .......

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by exscentric, Jun 21, 2008.

  1. exscentric

    exscentric
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    What did Jesus mean when He said to his disciples what He said in Matthew 19.3ff?

    "3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. 10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with [his] wife, it is not good to marry . 11 But he said unto them, All [men] cannot receive this saying, save [they] to whom it is given. 12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it]. "
     
  2. LadyEagle

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    It doesn't matter what He meant because some here have seemingly discarded the book of Matthew in deference to Paul's Epistles, in particular, Verse 9. :BangHead:

    I looked out on the Internet and this passage is used by the homose***l crowd to justify their lifestyle. Of course, we know this is not what Jesus meant.

    Okay, back to the laundry....
     
  3. jdlongmire

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    John Calvin
     
  4. donnA

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    A couple of things He is saying, divorce is because of the hardness of heart, and either party remarrying is adultry. Unless one wants to be guilty of adultry before God then they can not marry another after a divorce.
     
  5. exscentric

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    More to the point, what did He mean in the underlined section and does it refer to divorce etc. or the apostles comment in verse nine? Sorry forgot to mention that :tonofbricks:
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Consider Origen (c.185-c.254AD) of
    Alexandrian. People who think they take
    the Bible more literally than others
    condemn
    Origen for saying that there is much in the
    Bible which can only be understood
    on a spiritual level.

    1 Co 2:14 (KJV1611 Edition):
    But the naturall man receiueth not the things
    of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishnesse
    vnto him: neither can he know them,
    because they are spiritually discerned.


    Back in his day, a person prosessing faith
    in Messiah Yeshua were trained in The Faith
    for two years before they were Baptized
    (some were martyred prior to Baptism, blowing
    the concept you have to do the Work of Baptistm
    to get saved.) Origen was a Training Mentor for
    new Converts.

    When Origen came of age, he literally took
    these verses:

    Mat 18:89 (KJV1611 Editiion):
    Wherefore, if thy hand or thy foote cause thee
    to offend, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better
    for thee to enter into life, halt, or maimed, then hauing
    two hands, or two feete, to be cast into euerlasting fire.
    9 And if thine eye cause thee to offende, plucke it out,
    and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter
    into life with one eye, then hauing two eyes
    to be cast into hell fire.

    See also this scripture:
    Mat 19:11-12 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition)
    But he sayd vnto them, All men cannot receiue this thing, saue they to whom it is giuen.
    12 For there are some eunuches, which were so borne of their mothers belly: and there be some eunuches, which be gelded by men: and there be some eunuches, which haue gelded them selues for the kingdome of heauen. He that is able to receiue this, let him receiue it.

    We are talking about a sacrifice here - not an offering! 'Geld' means physical castration. 'Eunuch' means a male who has been physically castrated.


    Origen had his sexual members surgically removed
    so he would be more interested in Serving
    Messiah Yeshua than chasing women.
    I really think Origen is condemned for being
    way to literal
    but the words used to condemn
    him say things like this passage from the Dictionary
    of Premillennial Theology
    (Kregel, 1996):

     
    #6 Ed Edwards, Jun 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2008
  7. LadyEagle

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    Good post, Ed. :thumbs:
     
  8. pinoybaptist

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    IMHO the more important phrase is the last one "some have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of God". It doesn't mean take a scythe and hack the thing away, otherwise Jesus might as well said Go as they do for Molech with your children.

    It means there are those who have sacrificed earthly pleasures for the sake of service in the kingdom of God. This is where the Catholics base their "vow of celibacy" and I think they have the zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

    Paul was able to make himself a eunuch by beating his body (a phrase he used in one of his letters).

    Unfortunately the numbers of people willing to do that (deny themselves their normal biological desires for the sake of service to God) are dwindling especially in our times when it's basically "my, me, mine, and I, myself, number one" that counts, and all the feel good about yourself because God loves you preaching doesn't help any.
     
  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    The concept of celebacy is, as Jesus stated, hard for us to understand. If God lays that on the heart of a man or woman so they might devote themselves completely to serving God, I will respect that.

    But it is very rare to have someone make such a commitment.
     

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