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What did Jesus mean?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Craigbythesea, Aug 25, 2005.

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  1. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    What did Jesus mean when he told Nicodemus, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."? (NASB, 1995)

    Note: If you are KJO, please, please do not participate in this thread.

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 Craigbythesea, Aug 25, 2005
  2. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    The word "Born" comes from Greek word, "Gannao" and is used to denote a birth of a new nature inside the believer

    The word "again" come from Greek word, "Anothen" and denotes "from above"

    It declares a new nature that is imparted from above----from where God is.

    But I'm not in front of my commentaries right now or I would be able to dig up information on the Jewish implication--(Nicodemus missed it by a mile when he should have been "right on target"-give me a little time---let me see if I can find it.

    Bro. David
     
    #2 blackbird, Aug 25, 2005
  3. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    in "of Spirit AND water" water means what?
     
    #3 UZThD, Aug 25, 2005
  4. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    Water meant physical birth. Until the water breaks in a woman or any mammal the baby will not come out !

    We were born first of a phsical birth now we must be born of a spiritual birth.
     
    #4 RightFromWrong, Aug 25, 2005
  5. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    What does this have to do with anything?
     
    #5 James_Newman, Aug 25, 2005
  6. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    We must have a "New nature" imparted to us!!! the old nature must pass away---new things must come!
     
    #6 blackbird, Aug 25, 2005
  7. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    #7 UZThD, Aug 25, 2005
  8. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    There can be no other meaning !
     
    #8 RightFromWrong, Aug 25, 2005
  9. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    uh huh :rolleyes:
     
    #9 UZThD, Aug 25, 2005
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    What does this have to do with anything? </font>[/QUOTE]Brother James, anyone can start a topic and LIMIT who may participate (requesting it nicely). This keeps certain folks off a discussion who might sidetrack it.

    I'm assuming Craig, by using a different version than the KJV1769, did not want the discussion to focus on how "verily verily" was translated.

    Happens all the time. I've started threads for ONLY KJVonly or preferred to post, wanting their take on a matter.
     
    #10 Dr. Bob, Aug 25, 2005
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Context will help. The Hebrew mindset (read ALL of the OT) deals with parallelism and parallel thoughts. Notice how Jesus used it:

    3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    So Jesus in v5 says "water" and v6 says "flesh"; in v5 says "Spirit" and v6 says "Spirit".

    He is clarifying for us (so none may be confused) the difference between the NATURAL birth (water, fleshly) and the SUPERNATURAL birth (Spirit).

    If He hadn't made SURE, then some folks might foolishly think He was talking about water saving us. Ridiculous.
     
    #11 Dr. Bob, Aug 25, 2005
  12. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    yea verily that would have been the focus of my position ;)
     
    #12 James_Newman, Aug 25, 2005
  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Ah, you've been around long enough . . [​IMG]

    What is your take on the issue itself?
     
    #13 Dr. Bob, Aug 25, 2005
  14. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I was just going to say it means what it says, you cannot see the kingdom of God unless you are born again.
     
    #14 James_Newman, Aug 25, 2005
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Strange request since the KJV rendition is virtually identical: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    However, Jesus Christ is talking about the spiritual resurrection [John 5:24] or regeneration [Ephesians 2:1-7].
     
    #15 OldRegular, Aug 25, 2005
  16. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    Thanks Dr. Bob for going further into the verse to show that BORN OF WATER is FLESH. therefore there can be no other meaning

    Notice Jesus didn't say you need to be born again over and over again ;)
     
    #16 RightFromWrong, Aug 25, 2005
  17. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    right. All those others are just foolish and you are right! Jesus cleared the confusion up with Hebrew parallelism and all those eleven guys I listed need to get edicated so they can exigeet! Then they'd understand as well as you do. Thanks Dr. Bob for showing them up as being just foolish!

    [ August 25, 2005, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]
     
    #17 UZThD, Aug 25, 2005
  18. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    UZThD

    What did you just say :confused:
     
    #18 RightFromWrong, Aug 25, 2005
  19. FundamentalDan

    FundamentalDan New Member

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    In my opinion, the analogy of water/flesh and spirit/spirit could not be clearer. The only other interpretation that I have ever heard truly explained is the one referring to it as baptism, and that is usually by Church of Christ people. I did hear one man try to say the water was a type of the Holy Spirit, but that is ridiculously redundant. I agree with Dr. Bob, and I am sure he is grateful. And, since, UZThD is grateful to Dr. Bob, we seem to be having a charity fest here.
     
    #19 FundamentalDan, Aug 25, 2005
  20. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    UZ was being very sarcastic, but I take any sign of agreement as a GOOD thing!!

    Big problem I've had in dealing with Catholics. When I ask them to get their Bible (as is my habit), the Confraternity NT says "He that is born again of water and of the Spirit."

    They are bringing Catholic tenets into a text where the word "again" does not exist in ANY document.

    But it makes it appear as if a person is "born again" by being baptized. Dishonest translations are not the realm of the JW's only.
     
    #20 Dr. Bob, Aug 25, 2005
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