What do Baptists and Catholics have in common?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Peggy, Feb 10, 2010.

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  1. Peggy

    Peggy
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    Instead of focusing on the beliefs that divide us, I thought it would be interesting to focus on the beliefs that unite us. For example, in italics are the beliefs of a typical Baptist church in Bothell, Washington called Northshore Baptist Church.

    http://www.nsb.org/im-new/faith-statement

    Statement of FaithThe Word of God
    We believe that the Bible is the Word of God, fully inspired and without error in the original manuscripts, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and has supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct. (John 17:17; Romans 15:4; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17; 2 Peter 1:19-21)



    Catholics also believe that the Bible is the Word of God.


    The Trinity
    We believe that there is one living and true God, eternally existing in three persons; that these are equal in every divine perfection, and that they execute distinct but harmonious offices in the work of creation, providence, and redemption. (Matthew 28:19; John 1:1-4; 1 John 5:7)


    Catholics also believe in the Trinity.

    God the Father
    We believe in God, the Father, an infinite personal Spirit, perfect in holiness, wisdom, power, and love. We believe that He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of men, that He hears and answers prayer, that He saves from sin and death all who come to Him through Jesus Christ. (John 3:16-17, 4:24, 17:5)


    Catholics would also affirm this belief in God the Father.

    Jesus Christ
    We believe in Jesus Christ as God, the only begotten Son of the Father, conceived by the Holy Spirit. We believe in His virgin birth as a human being, sinless life, miracles, and teachings. We believe in His substitutionary atoning death, bodily resurrection, ascension into heaven, perpetual intercession for His people, and personal visible return to earth. (Isaiah 7:14; John 1:14; Philippians 2:5-11; I Thessalonians 4:16, 17; Hebrews 1:2, 3; I John 1:7)


    Catholics also affirm these beliefs in Jesus Christ.

    The Holy Spirit
    We believe in the Holy Spirit who came forth from the Father and Son to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment, and to regenerate, sanctify, and empower all who believe in Jesus Christ. We believe that the Holy Spirit indwells every believer in Christ and that He is an abiding Helper, Teacher and Guide. (John 16:7-15; Romans 8:14-17; Ephesians 1:13, 14; John 14:26)


    Catholics believe in the Holy Spirit.

    Regeneration
    We believe that all men are sinners by nature and choice. Therefore, they are under judgment. We believe that those who repent of their sins and trust Jesus Christ as Savior are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. (John 1:12, 13, 3:16-18; Acts 20:21; Ephesians 2:1-9; Titus 3:5)


    Catholics believe this as well.

    The Church
    We believe in the universal church, a living spiritual body of which Christ is the head and all regenerated persons are members. We believe in the local church consisting of a company of believers in Jesus Christ, baptized on a credible profession of faith, and associated for worship, work and fellowship. We believe that God has laid upon the members of the local church the primary task of giving the gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost world. (Matthew 16:16-18; Acts 2:38-41; Ephesians 2:19, 22, 5:25-27)


    Catholics would believe in most of this statement, but probably would add that the church is also the visible representative of Christ on earth and is composed of "wheat and tares" and which is which are known by God and will be revealed at the Final Judgement.

    Christian Conduct
    We believe that a Christian should live for the glory of God and well-being of his fellowmen; that his conduct should be blameless before the world; that he should be a faithful steward of his possessions; and that he should seek to realize for himself and others the full statute of maturity in Christ. (2 Corinthians 9:6-8; Ephesians 4:11-16, Philippians 2:14-16; Colossians 3:17-23; 1 Thessalonians 5:17, 18)


    Catholics would have no argument with this statement.

    The Ordinances
    We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has committed two ordinances to the local church: baptism and the Lord’s Supper. We believe that Christian baptism is the immersion of the believer in water into the name of the Triune God. We believe that these two ordinances should be observed and administered until the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 2:41, 42; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 11:23-32)


    Baptists and Catholics agree that Baptism and the Lord's Supper are important.

    Religious Liberty
    We believe that every human being has direct relations with God and is responsible to God in all matters of faith. Each church is independent and must be free from interference by an ecclesiastical or political authority; church and State must be kept separate as having fulfilling its duties free from dictation or patronage of the other.


    Baptists and Catholics agree that we are responsible to God in matters of faith.

    Church Cooperation
    We believe that local churches can best promote the cause of Jesus Christ by cooperating with one another in a denominational organization. Such an organization, whether a regional or district conference, exists and functions by the will of the churches. Cooperation in a conference is voluntary and may be terminated at any time. Churches, likewise, cooperate with interdenominational fellowships on a voluntary independent basis.


    Catholics also have an ecclesiastical structure for both accountability and to make sure that the RCC has a consistent voice on the matters of faith and morals. Catholic parishes co-operate among themeselves and with members of other church bodies at times


    The End Times
    We believe in the personal and visible return of the Lord Jesus Christ to earth and the establishment of His kingdom. We believe in the resurrection of the body, the final judgment, the eternal felicity of the righteous, and the endless suffering of the wicked. (Matthew 25:31-46; John 5:18, 29; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 20:1-15)


    Catholics believe this as well.

    Since we share so many things in common, doesn't it make sense that we should stop arguing about things that we will never agree upon, and start working together to do good in the world and win the lost for Christ?

    If I am in error about what Catholics believe, maybe Lori, Matt or Angus Dei would help me out here.
     
    #1 Peggy, Feb 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2010
  2. JohnDeereFan

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    How can we work together to "win the lost for Christ", when we preach two radically different gospels?
     
  3. DHK

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    Here is the hypocrisy.
    Here is what Catholic's say they believe and don't.
    1.
    Not a chance!

    2.

    Does an infant have a "credible profession of faith" when he or she is baptized? Sheer hypocrisy!


     
  4. Marcia

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    So you took a Baptist Statement of Faith and just posted your views that it is also what Catholics believe? That's not sufficient.

    For one thing, while they may say they believe the Bible is the word of God, they give equal authority to Tradition and to certain statements from the Pope. The RCC adds to the Bible. That is the issue with them (along with some of their interpretations of certain passages).

    For another thing, you can't go by Catholic Jane Doe down the street. You have to use the Catechism, the official doctrine of the RCC.


    The catechism also says that the Church is your "mother," meaning of course, the true Church, the RCC.

    Matt is Anglican and Agnus Dei is Eastern Orthodox; they are hardly authoritative on the RCC. I am not clear about Lori who joined as a non-Catholic but now I think considers herself one. Not sure.
     
  5. Zenas

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    The most authoritative statement I have seen, at least for Southern Baptists vis-a-vis Catholics, is found in a couple of joint statements posted by them.

    The first, http://www.usccb.org/seia/sbrctounderstandeachother1989.shtml, is a joint statement pertaining to doctrine.

    The second, http://www.usccb.org/seia/southernbaptist.shtml, is a joint statement pertaining to sacred scripture.

    It evident we hold a lot of things in common but there are also many things on which we disagree, primarily as to the sacraments, apostolic succession, prayers to Mary and the other saints, authority of the church and purgatory.
     
  6. Marcia

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    I highly recommend the book,
    Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences by Ralph MacKenzie and Norman Geisler

    Several Roman Catholics endorse this book, but not because Geisler or MacKenzie (a former Catholic) are soft on Catholicism; rather, because the approach is fair and loving. Although agreements are discussed, the differences are not watered down at all.

    I have not read it all - just parts - and I may not totally agree with it, but one thing I am sure of is that the information is accurate.

    Read the reviews on Amazon - some by Catholics, some by evangelicals.
     
  7. Peggy

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    Well, typical Baptist response. I am posting on what UNITES us as believers and you all chime in on what DIVIDES us. Or what you THINK divides us.

    There are divisions to be sure, but there is more that unites us than you want to acknowledge.

    The point is - especially to you, JohnDeereFan, that the RCC and Baptists do not "preach two different gospels".

    There is one gospel, that is the Good News that Christ came down to earth, preached, suffered, died and was buried for our sins. On that we can agree!

    And as Marcia just posted: there are "Agreements and Differences"!
     
    #7 Peggy, Feb 10, 2010
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  8. annsni

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    I think the issue is that while we might use the same terms, the meanings behind them are different for each group. So even those things that seem to be agreements on the surface are differences when we truly look at them. However we all do believe in the same God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. That much I agree with.
     
  9. billwald

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    >Does an infant have a "credible profession of faith" when he or she is baptized? Sheer hypocrisy!

    Catholic infants are not offered communion. A Catholic makes a credible profession of faith before joining the congregation in communion.

    Does anyone believe that every person who is not baptized as an adult goes to Hell?

    If no one believes this then the question is moot and simply argumentative for the sake of argument.
     
  10. Melanie

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    At the very least we have a passion for Our Redeemer...:godisgood::1_grouphug:
     
  11. JohnDeereFan

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    Au contraire.

    Catholicism usurps Christ's mediatorial office, proclaiming itself as the "sacrament of salvation." The "Church" dispenses salvation to her faithful in small portions, starting at baptism and continuing throughout life. Forgiveness can only be obtained through the sacrament of penance. The benefits of Christ's sacrifice are accessible through the sacrifice of the Mass. Instead of teaching the faithful to rest in Christ by faith, Catholics are taught to perform religious works to "merit grace" and to do penance to make satisfaction. Even after death, Catholics remains dependent on the "Church" to relieve their suffering in Purgatory by masses and indulgences.

    Doesn't sound like any Gospel I've ever heard a Baptist preach, much less any I've ever found in the word of God.

    I see. So then, do you believe that Mormons preach the same Gospel, as well?
     
    #11 JohnDeereFan, Feb 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2010
  12. lori4dogs

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    Catholics are saved by grace through faith. That is what the church teaches. You cannot work your way to heaven. Johndeerefan, that is a lot of hooey! Read the joint Lutheran-Catholic declaration on Justification again.
     
  13. annsni

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    They are saved by faith - with the sacraments. You cannot be saved outside of the sacraments, can you?
     
  14. JohnDeereFan

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    "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9).

    "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema." (Canon 14).
     
  15. Thinkingstuff

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    I don't understand your first point. Catholics actually believe that according to their Catachism. Your second point only suggest you haven't made a differentiation between infants and adults. Certainly the point is made for Adult Catholic converts. Infants are a different catagory are they not?
     
  16. Thinkingstuff

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    I'll take you up on that suggestion.
     
  17. Thinkingstuff

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    There is no mediatorial office. That just sounds of nonsence. Christ provides satisfaction by his crucifixion and resurrection. Catholics only "merit" grace once they have faith. A similiar way of looking at it is this way.
    If you have no faith in Jesus no matter how much good works you do you are not "saved" and cannot be saved by your own activities. However, if you have been saved then every good thing you do will be judged by God and you will recieve a crown for such obedience.
     
  18. JohnDeereFan

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    Really? Catholicism doesn't have priests? That's news to me.
     
  19. DHK

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    First, I read the OP a little too quickly and didn't realize she was quoting from a Baptist statement of faith. So I was reading it, thinking that some Catholic composed it. Thus in my mind it came across as a pack of lies.

    In the first point the statement of faith reads:
    We believe that those who repent of their sins and trust Jesus Christ as Savior are regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
    --
    The RCC does not believe this.
    1. Most, like myself, are admitted into the RCC through infant baptism. How can an infant repent of their sins? How can an infant trust Jesus Christ of their Savior? And consequently be regenerated by the Holy Spirit? All three are impossible. The Catholic Church does not believe in any of this. To say so is just hypocrisy. Even an adult does not believe this in the RCC to gain admission. They go through a process of confirmation classes. It is not Christ they trust; it is the Church and the Catechism.

    2. The Church
    We believe in the universal church, a living spiritual body of which Christ is the head and all regenerated persons are members. We believe in the local church consisting of a company of believers in Jesus Christ, baptized on a credible profession of faith, and associated for worship, work and fellowship. We believe that God has laid upon the members of the local church the primary task of giving the gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost world. (Matthew 16:16-18; Acts 2:38-41; Ephesians 2:19, 22, 5:25-27)

    Again the same point is made. Very few people become Catholics outside of infant baptism. Those that do become Catholics as adults don't have a clue about regeneration. They believe that baptism is a part of regeneration or salvation, which it is not. The statement of faith here says: "baptized on a credible profession of faith," which means the profession of faith," the statement that "Yes now I am a Christian" comes before baptism. Baptism has nothing to do with salvation according to this statement of faith. Catholics don't believe this. Why pretend that they do? It is hypocrisy to say that they do.
     
  20. Thinkingstuff

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    You're claiming Jesus has a mediatoral office. He is the mediator between God and man. Its not an office.
     
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