Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Daniel David, Oct 22, 2002.
Where do you / your church stand?
Kick it off to the side, not feed it, and hope it dies painlessly (but quickly)!
Never been to one. What do promise keepers do that offend some?
Well said ...
Hmmm.... a men's group that strives to make men more committed to their spouses, children, and selves.
Never been to one. Would welcome the opportunity to attend.
Funny how we feel threatened by it. I wonder why we're threated by Promise Keepers, but not Habitat for Humanity? They're both specializing one specific biblical principle.
The men's movement know as the "Promise Keepers" has made a march across denominational lines for the past several years. Promise Keepers are asked to make several promises, most of which are agreeable to the Bible. There is one promise, however, that we cannot keep. that is the promise to "tear down denominational walls."
II Corinthians 6:14-18.
I think that when there are denomination-neutral groups such as Promise Keepers or Habitat, breaking bricks of denominationalism is just what's happening.
I'm not saying denominatios are a bad thing, but Christian activity should not be limited to denominational barriers.
You know what John? In my mind I agree with you. But the Bible says not to be unequally yoked...and so...I won't. (of course being a woman, they wouldn't let me in anyway...so the point is moot in my case I guess.)
I'm not familiar with Habitat for Humanity being a religious group. I knew they made houses for people who couldn't afford them, other than that I don't see the simularity. I think building houses for people who can't afford one by volunteer effort is a nobel thing to do.
I know a man who travels between 70 and 250 miles EVERY Sunday to attend a Promise Keeper's function.
He is very useful to his "local" church, his family and to the work of Christ. (Cynical, in case no one got it)
No further comment.
God has used the PK movement (Promise Keepers not Preachers Kids ) to cause many men to reconsider the importance of their biblical role as a husband and father. As with any other popular non-denominational movement, it is going to have its critics. But once again the stark reality hits us squarely in the face that God can use many people and groups outside my little box.
As far as the "unequally yoked" argument...
I take offense at the laughing at the "unequally yoked" comment.
Pastor says: "Let's go witnessing this evening."
Member says: "Sorry, got a Promise Keepers meeting."
Pastor says: "Then let's go visit some church members tomorrow night."
Member says: "Sorry, I've already got dinner planned with a Lutheran, an Episcopalian, and a Pentecostal from my Promise Keepers group."
Pastor says: "Can we count on you to help out with the church dinner Sunday?"
Member says: "Let me get back to you on that; I still haven't decided if I'm going to the Promise Keepers convention this weekend."
Pastor says: "The church misses you."
Member says: "But look at the growth in my family life since I started with Promise Keepers."
[ October 23, 2002, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Don ]
Promise Keepers was started by Bill McCartney to somehow assuage his own guilt at having failed as a father due to the wrong priorities he carried while coaching major college football. It is an unscriptural organization. Why don't these men go to their pastors in their local churches if they need help in these areas? That would be the Scriptural solution. (Of course, I know sometimes it's because we pastors don't model the Bibical structure ourselves.) We can never set aside doctrine in the name of love, unity, Biblical manhood, or any other "good cause."
The problem with PK is not its call to men to be biblical men. The problem is 1) its disregard to for truth among those who it allows to hold the pulpit at its gatherings and 2) its weakening of hte local church. Where are all the pastors who are doing this? I have no doubt that some good has been accomplished. About 2 years ago, I met a man while playing golf who was saved at a PK meeting. He was faithful and growing. But I would remind us that the end never justifies the means in matters of morality and truth.
I take offense at your broad-stroke labeling of a movement God has used in a great way.
As for your hypothetical straw man, well it is just that: hypothetical and a straw man therefore...
Something else to keep in mind.
PK and Dobson are both guilty of the same thing: they emphasize the family and downplay the gospel. Recently, PK changed their statement of faith to accomodate a larger group. Talk about a lack of integrity!
The gospel is to be supreme and family issues distant behind it.
Btw, according to Scripture, getting saved might just cost you your marriage.
Pastors Greg & Larry:
Think outside the box occasionally.
It might actually help you discover God can do things well beyond our finite opinions of whose methods are right (usually my own) and whose are wrong (usually those who think a little differently than me)
I don't mind thinking outside the box. It's one of my favorite things to do. What I do mind is thinking outside the Bible. This is not primarily about methods of doing something. It is about doctrine and truth. I don't get to make any value judgments on that; God has made them for me. As I said, my issue is not with the values or goals of PK. It is with the theology and obedience. In that arena, there is not much room for being "outside the box."
It is an unscriptural organization. Why don't these men go to their pastors in their local churches if they need help in these areas? That would be the Scriptural solution.
Promise Keepers is anything but unscriptural. Just because it's not for everyone does not in amy way make it unscriptural. Again, I use the Habitat for Humanity example. Is it unscriptural for the same reasons? No.
As far as going to a pastor, seeing a pastor is by no means a "cure-all" for our problems. Got a problem with alcololism? No need to go to AA, just see your pastor. Grieving over the death of a spouse or child? No need to seek professional counseling, just see a pastor. I have nothing against seeing a pastor, but is it fair for us to dump everything on our pastors and say "here... fix it"?
WisdomSeeker's concerns about being unequally yoked are aa valid concern. My preference would be to see denominational chapters of PK. But not being setup in that manner does not constitute being unscriptural.
John, the comparison to Habitat for Humanity is wrong.
I don't go to Habitat for Humanity looking for a scriptural way to build houses. Most of the people I personally know that go out once a year to help build houses with HFH aren't doing it to scripturally, biblically, or even spiritually assist someone. Most of 'em don't even know that HFH has some sort of biblical background. They do it because: a) Someone needs a house; b) they need a block filled on their annual performance reports.
You can't say the same for PK.
Grace, if that's the way you want to treat other's opinions and views--then by all means, laugh away.
Just don't get upset if they start treating you in like manner.
Can you point out to me where PK violates doctrinal truth? I am specifically looking for how they compromise one of the fundamentals of the faith (b/c outside of the fundamentals, we have to allow for some differences of opinion).